Will Whites really be a minority in the USA by the year 2050?

[Incal]

America is the people that make it up. All countries are. Citizenries are not interchangeable.

I totally agree with this.

That is, until SilverKnight, and remember he thinks he's no different than George Washington. Both white, you know.

LMAO

[Smitty]

America has reached a point of no return. White lefties have done a damn good job at pushing their lefty agenda while recruiting minorities to push it further. Hate to say it but you are your own worst enemy. I'm middle eastern. Is my presence here "transformational"? Am I not allowed to lean to the right? At this point you should have as many allies as possible. So long as the left is in power the worse things will get.

America is practically dead, as far as I'm concerned, both as a people and as a polity. It's hard for me to get too wrapped up in the political contests of the day because it's arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Even if conservatives could bring in gobs of minorities (they can't; minorities don't vote rightwing), there's still no way to undo all the damage. So no, I don't see much value in making overtures to people who won't vote with us anyway in order to get a few shaky governmental seats/positions, the holders of which will betray us a few months later. I don't know what's going to happen, nor what to do about the current situation, but I'm definitely looking more and more long-term.

You ask if your presence is transformational. What can I say? Yes, it is. I'm not always out to be mean. But I'm not a civic nationalist. I want America to remain the America I knew, impossible as that may be, not become a meaningless amalgam of every race and creed on Earth, as long as they all eat apple pie and sing the anthem good and loud. You can certainly lean right. At this point, there are many freedoms and norms up for debate, and the Left is on the wrong side on every one of them, purposely of course. So yeah, there is reason for you to vote right. But as I said above, agreeing on a few political issues isn't all that matters to me. And it is definitely not the full expression of conservatism.

[Smitty]

Bro, we are not in the eighteenth century, how do you want a modern conservative think as one of a bygone era?

The eighteenth century? Most people held my views just fifty years ago. Americans have been the consummate dupes. Our country was stolen from us in the dead of night, without our understanding or our consent. I think a lot of people are just starting to wake up to that. It's easy to say, "Oh, I don't care what race America is" until you drive down the street and realize you're the last white guy left in your neighborhood or you can't read the names of any of the businesses in some spot because they're all in Spanish or you wake up to the fact that it's not chance Ilhan Omar and Alexandria Ocasio get elected because their districts are only 25% white and real Americans didn't elect them at all. Remember, I used to be a civic nationalist too.

Wouldn't you have a problem if the majority of white Americans turned communists, and voted for a communist candidate?

Of course, I would. Is this supposed to show me that freedom rises above race and I would rather live among all those rightwing Indians out there than communist Anglos? Maybe I would. I doubt it. But it's a straw man anyway. Europeans and their descendants have, so far, been the only ones to embrace freedom as we know it. I don't expect it to catch on anywhere else, and it's probably going to die out completely.

[happycow]

America is practically dead, as far as I'm concerned, both as a people and as a polity. It's hard for me to get too wrapped up in the political contests of the day because it's arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Even if conservatives could bring in gobs of minorities (they can't; minorities don't vote rightwing), there's still no way to undo all the damage. So no, I don't see much value in making overtures to people who won't vote with us anyway in order to get a few shaky governmental seats/positions, the holders of which will betray us a few months later. I don't know what's going to happen, nor what to do about the current situation, but I'm definitely looking more and more long-term.

You ask if your presence is transformational. What can I say? Yes, it is. I'm not always out to be mean. But I'm not a civic nationalist. I want America to remain the America I knew, impossible as that may be, not become a meaningless amalgam of every race and creed on Earth, as long as they all eat apple pie and sing the anthem good and loud. You can certainly lean right. At this point, there are many freedoms and norms up for debate, and the Left is on the wrong side on every one of them, purposely of course. So yeah, there is reason for you to vote right. But as I said above, agreeing on a few political issues isn't all that matters to me. And it is definitely not the full expression of conservatism.

I'm Palestinian. There aren't many of us here and we do not even make up a "significant minority." There are far more blacks, hispanics, east asians and south asians. My country was handed over to the Jews by the British and the French, and the US continues to give billions in aid to fund the existence of Israel. When the US stops funding Israel's existence and I get my country back, I'll happily self deport. I'll be waiting. I certainly do not want to be part of the problem that true conservatives are fighting for. I had no control over me being here, as I was born here.

But I do get where you are coming from. It is unfortunate that America is the way it is. There shouldn't be a significant population of any minority. If I wanted to be around a bunch of black people, I'd go to Africa. If I wanted to see a bunch of latinos, I'd go to Latin America. If I wanted to see a bunch of middle easterners, Koreans, Japanese, etc, I would go to their countries.

[Mortimer]

Well, your black boyfriend's ancestors have almost certainly been here since 1807 and before. I have nothing against black conservatives, although I think they usually rewrite history to a degree in order to feel comfortable identifying as one. But conservatism isn't just a set of ideals for me because America isn't just a set of ideals. America is the people that make it up. All countries are. Citizenries are not interchangeable. If/when the American people cease to exist, so does America. So if there are a few Cubans or Japs or Lebanese who oppose abortion and like low taxes and don't particularly want to tear down Monticello, that doesn't make them conservatives to me. Sure, our views overlap, undoubtedly more than with some white San Francisco Marxist. But that doesn't mean we're truly part of the same group, nor that their best interests are my best interests. They can be better than but not good enough, so to speak. I may like some things D'Souza says, but he is not a conservative to me, not only because he is changing America, but also because his ideology will not allow for anything else. You'll never catch a new American fighting for the preservation of the American people. That is, until SilverKnight, and remember he thinks he's no different than George Washington. Both white, you know.

Conservative and Left are just lables though. You can be a Marxist and Racist or Identitarian, you can be Libertarian or Capitalist and Multicultural. It is not black and white. Your view is only one view. It depends also on the country what conservative is, and what liberal is. It differs. In some countries I might be a liberal and in some countries I might be considered conservative. People consider Black Identitarians as liberal, but White Identitarians as conservative. Thats just lables. It seems by saying they are not conservative you are excluding or want to get rid of them, which is what you want, so I agree you and them are not the same because they feel american and want to be in America. I just dont understand why such people want it to be white, because they are not white, they part of not white. But I heard many saying I want to live among whites, or I want america to stay white, that is the only contradiction, but they can be anti-lgbtq, anti-communism, pro-religion, anti-abortion, pro-traditions/families etc. Just like gays and marxists can be racist. It really comes down to what you consider the most important issue. I consider someone like Celestia and her Black family to be like me, I think we think pretty much alike, a multicultural christian conservativism. But you are a white identitarian I dont consider you to be like me.

[Mortimer]

Btw I consider myself a moderate rom identitarian, within reason and moderation. I support self determination of roma, but not physical terretory, that is something which never existed nor will exist, nor it should. I support self-determination on simple principles, like roma scientists, roma politicians, roma preachers etc. who serve the roma community, and roma represent roma, that means we are not defined anymore by outsiders, usually people wrote about roma, who they are, like free spirits, their women have high libido, they are born thieves, etc. now roma write who roma are and define themselfes, and thats what i live and practice, as roma I educate people who I am and shape what roma are. Thats all and that is not even racist or in any way aggressive or demanding, just basic common sense.

[Anglo-Celtic]

I'm not standing on any agenda here. I think most Irish, myself included just hate Irish history being hijacked. All people were most probably slaves at one time but this is not what the Irish Were Slaves stuff is about. The Irish were not chattel slaves and this is easily researched if people want to look up details. No one is saying the Irish had an easy time. My point is people using the word "Slave" should be clear what they mean. Chattel slavery is what happened with Africans that were transported to the New World. The Irish were never in that category. If you want to call Indentured Servants slaves that is not being accurate and a large amount of people now are not the most well read and believe whatever they see on Facebook. Large amounts of Europeans that came to the New World were Indentured Servants with English and Scots in much larger numbers than the Irish. Germans and other groups were also Indentured Servants.

Why point out that one of those sources might be affiliated to whoever when the Irish Slave Memes are the ones who are definitely tied to very dubious sources. The other sources are completely above board. They are historians and academics with many of them being Irish.

Why people insist on making the Irish story worse than anyone else I just don't understand the psychology of that especially when they aren't Irish themselves.

No one is denying that the Irish had lots of obstacles and they had it shit in Ireland as well. They weren't however chattel slaves.

The point is Irish history is being hijacked. Irish history does not need any embellishment.

I would think people would like truth. Anyway what's it all about with this hijacking of Irish history?

I know that *you're* not. I think that both sides, Left and Right, are. One side maximizes slavery while one side minimizes slavery. I think that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

"Indentured servitude" is just a phrase. Some servants were de facto slaves. Black Africans were indentured at the start of the colonies too. They then became slaves just like Irish people and other people.

[Anglo-Celtic]

I would agree with this if you made the distinction about chattel slavery. Indentured servants were protected in law and had rights which is not something that Africans had. Also despite the rhetoric often in this Forum many Irish did extremely well for themselves and I mean the Catholic ones. I personally had relatives that went to the US in the 1870s and they faced no discrimination. Some of their ancestors that I'm aware of were lawyers and one is a Professor. Also among many of the Irish that did very well there were people like John Frances Fitzgerald (Honey Fitz), JFK's Grandfather, the Mayor of Boston. Nothing stopped him from being very successful like many other Irish. So despite the difficulties the Irish faced there was nothing that stopped them being Sheriffs, Congressmen, Mayors etc. You wouldn't know it on here because apparently the Irish were treated worse than Africans and slaves.

Another interesting case is Grace Kelly's father John Kelly. He was born from Irish parents who went to the US in 1860s. John was born in Philadelphia and attended public school and at night furthered his education at a Technical School. To cut a long story short he became very rich in construction after leaving the Army. He was also a very talented sportsman both in football and rowing. His application to compete in the most prestigious event in rowing the Henley Regatta (on the River Thames) was rejected because he worked with his hands. Kelly was so angered by this that he decided to race at the 1920 Olympics in Belgium. He won the event (single sculls) against the winner of the Henley Regatta that he was refused entry in. Half an hour later he teams with his cousin Paul Costello to win the double scull. Another example like Honey Fitz of children of Irish parents achieving great things because of sheer grit, determination and talent. There are plenty of other stories like this also so the Irish have plenty to proud of.

That's very true. My family history proves that. Some ancestors, from Ireland, converted from Catholicism to Protestantism in the 1700s. They were respected and successful citizens.

[Smitty]

Conservative and Left are just lables though. You can be a Marxist and Racist or Identitarian, you can be Libertarian or Capitalist and Multicultural. It is not black and white. Your view is only one view. It depends also on the country what conservative is, and what liberal is. It differs. In some countries I might be a liberal and in some countries I might be considered conservative. People consider Black Identitarians as liberal, but White Identitarians as conservative. Thats just lables. It seems by saying they are not conservative you are excluding or want to get rid of them, which is what you want, so I agree you and them are not the same because they feel american and want to be in America. I just dont understand why such people want it to be white, because they are not white, they part of not white. But I heard many saying I want to live among whites, or I want america to stay white, that is the only contradiction, but they can be anti-lgbtq, anti-communism, pro-religion, anti-abortion, pro-traditions/families etc. Just like gays and marxists can be racist. It really comes down to what you consider the most important issue. I consider someone like Celestia and her Black family to be like me, I think we think pretty much alike, a multicultural christian conservativism. But you are a white identitarian I dont consider you to be like me.

You make some interesting points. I agree "left" and "right" are labels that have been superimposed on a collection of political stances. But I don't see "conservative" the same way. It has actual meaning in English, just as "Marxist" and "capitalist" do. And if we define it correctly as desiring to conserve the past, it clearly refers to a set of political positions in America. So-called conservatives vary in the degree to which they agree with those positions, some more, some less. And in that sense, there is a spectrum. That's why we use terms like "moderate conservative" and "centrist." Those are people who adhere to some principles of conservatism, but not all of them. I guess I'm something of a purist. I don't consider open, practicing homosexuals conservative either, even if they believe in small government, oppose abortion, and support immigration restrictions. Heck, even if they supported the nuclear family and opposed the LGBT agenda (which is basically the homosexual equivalent of SilverKnight's Dominican racism), I still wouldn't consider them conservatives because their lifestyle is at odds with conservatism. It too would be transformational. Basically, there are, to me at least, some key aspects of American identity and culture that are integral to conservatism. And if you can't check them all off, then you're not a proper conservative. I don't care so much about the label itself. Many (most?) mainstream conservatives would disavow me and say that I'm not a true conservative because they don't like my views. But that's my take on this.

[Mortimer]

You make some interesting points. I agree "left" and "right" are labels that have been superimposed on a collection of political stances. But I don't see "conservative" the same way. It has actual meaning in English, just as "Marxist" and "capitalist" do. And if we define it correctly as desiring to conserve the past, it clearly refers to a set of political positions in America. So-called conservatives vary in the degree to which they agree with those positions, some more, some less. And in that sense, there is a spectrum. That's why we use terms like "moderate conservative" and "centrist." Those are people who adhere to some principles of conservatism, but not all of them. I guess I'm something of a purist. I don't consider open, practicing homosexuals conservative either, even if they believe in small government, oppose abortion, and support immigration restrictions. Heck, even if they supported the nuclear family and opposed the LGBT agenda (which is basically the homosexual equivalent of SilverKnight's Dominican racism), I still wouldn't consider them conservatives because their lifestyle is at odds with conservatism. It too would be transformational. Basically, there are, to me at least, some key aspects of American identity and culture that are integral to conservatism. And if you can't check them all off, then you're not a proper conservative. I don't care so much about the label itself. Many (most?) mainstream conservatives would disavow me and say that I'm not a true conservative because they don't like my views. But that's my take on this.

America itself is transformational because Europe was feudal and catholic and that meant to be conservative Americans were freemasonry and that means liberal so you see it depends. Sometimes authoritarian can be conservative not small government