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Thread: Are Lithuanians more similar to Germans in a way than they would be to Russians?

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    auringon syy & syy Harkonnen's Avatar
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    Culturally I'm of course most similar to Russian. Only I'm a oddbird Russian.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veslan View Post
    Could be Mongoloid or Cro-Magnon influence.

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    Probably some don't understand that genetically closest groups are not always exactly as very close. For example Dutch are closer to Danish and Irish than any Russian subgroup to Lithuanians or Finns.

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    Komintasavalta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harkonnen View Post
    I don't know why you still think Finns are genetically similar to Russians. I'm not genetically similar to any Russians with exception of maybe some very far Northern Russians. Just because ADMIXTURE forces fake components to form which makes quite dissimilar people look rather similar doesn't mean anything when whole genome similarity distances in FST IBD etc say complete different. Now some people will pull out the drift card. I've never believed in it, and even if true, drift is still not without meaning when measuring man in face of gods and tempests. Now I may be more similar to Russians in relation to many other peoples, but I've always been man of absolutes.
    Here's FST distance to Finns for modern samples in the Reich dataset. This is missing Swedes, so the highest-ranking Western European population are Norwegians, who are on rank 22:

    FST distance to Finnish:
    0.00150 Karelian
    0.00284 Russian_Tver
    0.00319 Estonian
    0.00369 Russian_Vologda
    0.00371 Russian_Yaroslavl
    0.00393 Russian_Archangelsk_Krasnoborsky
    0.00400 Russian_Kursk
    0.00420 Russian_Pskov
    0.00441 Russian_Ryazan
    0.00523 Czech
    0.00529 Belarusian
    0.00536 Mordovian
    0.00545 Russian_Orel
    0.00550 Hungarian
    0.00556 Ukrainian_North
    0.00563 Ukrainian
    0.00581 Russian_Archangelsk_Pinezhsky
    0.00587 Veps
    0.00602 Russian_Smolensk
    0.00626 Russian_Belgorod
    0.00667 Erzya
    0.00676 Norwegian
    0.00685 Russian_Kaluga
    0.00696 Moksha
    0.00704 Lithuanian
    0.00708 Tatar_Mishar
    0.00726 Tatar_Kazan
    0.00726 English
    0.00736 Icelandic
    0.00737 French
    0.00769 Bulgarian
    0.00854 Croatian

    Even Tatars rank higher than the English, even though it's partially because FST is more sensitive to local drift than G25, and Tatars are a mixed population with low driftedness.

    However North Germanics are so woggy that they are much closer to Balkanites than Finns are, and they're even closer to Bulgarians than to most Russian subpopulations:


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    auringon syy & syy Harkonnen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komintasavalta View Post


    However North Germanics are so woggy that they are much closer to Balkanites than Finns are, and they're even closer to Bulgarians than to most Russian subpopulations:

    Yup Norwegian so woggy that they are actually closer to Mishar Tatars than to Karelians. Also closer to almost almost all Russians than to Finns.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veslan View Post
    Could be Mongoloid or Cro-Magnon influence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komintasavalta View Post
    Here's FST distance to Finns for modern samples in the Reich dataset. This is missing Swedes, so the highest-ranking Western European population are Norwegians, who are on rank 22:

    FST distance to Finnish:
    0.00150 Karelian
    0.00284 Russian_Tver
    0.00319 Estonian
    0.00369 Russian_Vologda
    0.00371 Russian_Yaroslavl
    0.00393 Russian_Archangelsk_Krasnoborsky
    0.00400 Russian_Kursk
    0.00420 Russian_Pskov
    0.00441 Russian_Ryazan
    0.00523 Czech
    0.00529 Belarusian
    0.00536 Mordovian
    0.00545 Russian_Orel
    0.00550 Hungarian
    0.00556 Ukrainian_North
    0.00563 Ukrainian
    0.00581 Russian_Archangelsk_Pinezhsky
    0.00587 Veps
    0.00602 Russian_Smolensk
    0.00626 Russian_Belgorod
    0.00667 Erzya
    0.00676 Norwegian
    0.00685 Russian_Kaluga
    0.00696 Moksha
    0.00704 Lithuanian
    0.00708 Tatar_Mishar
    0.00726 Tatar_Kazan
    0.00726 English
    0.00736 Icelandic
    0.00737 French
    0.00769 Bulgarian
    0.00854 Croatian
    I believe that Finnish sample in Reichs data was composite of West Finns and East Finns.

    Here are the closest FST distances to West Finns from Salmela's data (multiplied by 10000):
    Swedes: 24.2
    Swedes(mix): 29.7, 1.23x
    East Finns: 30.3
    Russians: 34.4
    Germans: 34.5, 1.43x



    And here are FST distances to East Finns:
    West Finns: 30.3
    Russians: 69.0, 2.28x
    Swedes: 70.3
    Swedes(mix): 72.0
    Germans: 85.0, 2.80x

    Here are FST distances to Russian sample:
    Germans: 28.2
    Swedes: 29.8, 1.06x
    West Finns: 34.4
    CEU: 36.3
    British: 38.3, 1,36x

    Here are FST distances to Swedes:
    Germans: 6.5
    CEU: 7.4, 1.14x
    British: 10.4
    Swedish(mix): 12.4
    French: 21.0, 3.25x


    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/...gin=BROWSELINK

    According FST West Finns are closer both Swedish sample than East Finns. However differences are not big. East Finns on the other hand show clear similarity only to West Finns, and even then in absolute sense, the FST difference is quite big. 2nd closest to East Finns are Russians followed closely by Swedish samples.

    East Finnish FST to Russian sample compared to West Finnish is doubled (2.28x). Compare this to 1.06x, 1.14x and 1.23x.

    Russian sample is very equally distanced to all of its top 5 (from Germans 28.2 to British 38.3). Compare this to Swedes top 5, where eventho in absolute sense distances are very small: 5th standing France has very small distance of 21. Yet if you compare it to closest sample to Swedes in the dataset, the distance is trebled (from 6.5 to 21).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veslan View Post
    Could be Mongoloid or Cro-Magnon influence.

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