Oliver Cromwell: Hero or Villain?

[Joe McCarthy]

Cromwell's great moral failing of murder "trump" whatever abilities he had as a military commander. He should be thought of accordingly.

Not unusually severe by 17th century standards (for example, Catholics murdering Protestants in France, the Thirty Years War, etc) and done in the context of Irish rebels massacring English settlers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromwel...est_of_Ireland

Cromwell's actions in Ireland occurred in the context of a mutually cruel war. In 1641-42 Irish insurgents in Ulster killed between 4,000 and 12,000 Protestant settlers (who had settled on land where the former Catholic owners had been evicted to make way for them) before they fled

There's also no real evidence he ordered the massacre in Wexford.

Beyond that, men are commonly thought of as heroes even if they may have used less than wonderful means; Churchill, Vlad Tepes, etc., to name a couple.

[Oreka Bailoak]

Considering he sent some of my ancestors to the American colonies for slavery (indentured servants) because they lost trying to protect their own homeland in battle against his blood thirsty expansionist Empire, I'm going to say I strongly hate him.

[Joe McCarthy]

Pffft. Like Jews Irishmen seem incapable of transcending the vicarious suffering of dead ancestors to give an impartial appraisal. Maybe if the Irish hadn't given refuge to Royalists to plot an invasion of England, butchered English settlers, and conducted piracy on English ships, they wouldn't have received a bloody nose.

[Sikeliot]

Villain.

[Oreka Bailoak]

Pffft. Like Jews Irishmen seem incapable of transcending the vicarious suffering of dead ancestors to give an impartial appraisal. Maybe if the Irish hadn't given refuge to Royalists to plot an invasion of England, butchered English settlers, and conducted piracy on English ships, they wouldn't have received a bloody nose.

The ancestors I was talking about were Scottish not Irish.

[HungAryan]

He is a full-fledged villain.
End of discussion.

[Monolith]

Not unusually severe by 17th century standards (for example, Catholics murdering Protestants in France, the Thirty Years War, etc) and done in the context of Irish rebels massacring English settlers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromwel...est_of_Ireland

That makes both French Catholics of that time and Cromwell murderers.

[Jack B]

The ancestors I was talking about were Scottish not Irish.

He'd been baiting for an Irish response so eagerly a post or two ago he didn't even bother to verify it, why let enthusiasm get in the way of facts eh?

Cromwell's actions in Ireland occurred in the context of a mutually cruel war. In 1641-42 Irish insurgents in Ulster killed between 4,000 and 12,000 Protestant settlers (who had settled on land where the former Catholic owners had been evicted to make way for them) before they fled

So.... men applying the very preservationist/anti-invader values that are held in high regard on forums such as this?

[Magister Eckhart]

That makes both French Catholics of that time and Cromwell murderers.

It was a dark time for the West.

[Osweo]

Ahem.

He was quite popular round where I'm from;






... Until Do-Gooding TRAITORS had him removed from his place guarding the Old Church from Papishers and foppish dandies, and dumped him in a park!!!


A'll ave thee put back, Oliver, deawn't tha wurry, lad...

Tho' Papists and Vagabonds do betake themselves th'opportunitie afforded by the thread to disport themselves disgraciously toward our most noble high Lord Cromwell, tis to be thought that naught will avail them in this foolish and ill advised endeavour, so long as stout Englishmen and true do stand by their Captain! So let us ride forth to confound their knavery, bold 'Roundheads'! GOD encompass us!