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Thread: Vikings discovered the Azores?

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    Default Vikings discovered the Azores?

    I know this anti-Northern forum hates and dismisses them, but another cool achievement potentially. (that doesn't take away from the Portuguese discovery, inb4 Med defensiveness ).

    https://theeuropatimes.com/did-vikin...-the-guardian/
    They came from the land of the ice and snow and the midnight sun – but still ended up in some balmy destinations. This is the conclusion of researchers who have discovered evidence to support the idea that the Vikings settled on the clement shores of the Azores several hundred years before the Portuguese arrived in 1427.

    Given that the Vikings are usually associated with the frozen north, the claim is startling. Nevertheless, it is based on solid science, says a group of international researchers who recently analysed lakebed sediments in the Azores, an archipelago in the mid-Atlantic.
    These were found to be rich in organic compounds that are found in cow and sheep faeces. At the same time, these samples were also found to contain high levels of charcoal but were low in pollen from native trees.
    Such a mix strongly suggests early settlers were burning trees to clear land for their livestock to graze on, the researchers argue. However, it was the dating of these samples that has provided the real surprise. The scientists found that they had been deposited sometime between AD700 and 850, several centuries earlier than the date given for the Portuguese arrival on the islands.

    “Our reconstructions offer unambiguous evidence for the pre-Portuguese settlement of the Azores,” states the team, who were led by ecologist Pedro Raposeiro, of the University of the Azores, in a paper published in the US journal, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences this month.

    Around AD700 to 800, wind and weather conditions in the northern hemisphere probably helped settlers from higher latitudes and inhibited those from southern Europe, making it easier for people from the north to reach the Azores, the paper adds. And as for the identity of these settlers, the researchers are emphatic. “These results suggest that the Norse were most likely the earliest settlers on the islands,” it states.
    Crucially, Raposeiro’s conclusions are also supported by research by evolutionary biologist Jeremy Searle of Cornell University, who has also argued that Vikings made it to the Azores, though his work is based on a very different biological source. It has focused on the mouse.

    “Mice sneak on board ships and are carried round the world by humans,” Searle told the Observer last week. “Where you find humans, you find mice and if you can work out where those mice came from you get an insight to where those humans had their original homes.”

    Searle’s studies have revealed that populations of the house mouse, Mus musculus, have different genetic signatures depending on their locality. “By analysing the mitochondrial DNA – which is inherited through the female line – we can tell the difference between mice from different parts of Europe,” he said.
    In the British Isles, one distinctive house mouse lineage is found in Orkney, the Isle of Man, the Hebrides, Caithness and parts of Ireland.

    “These were all areas of Viking influence and, crucially, when we looked at Norway, we found that mice there carry the same genetic signature,” Searle said.

    In short, Searle and his team believe they have pinpointed the Viking mouse and have since looked for signs of its presence elsewhere – and found it in ancient mice remains from Iceland and Greenland, which the Vikings had settled more than 1,000 years ago.
    Then, a few years ago, Searle looked at two other locations much further to the south: the Azores and Madeira – and in both places they found mice there carried the same genetic signature as that carried by the Viking mouse. Crucially, they found very few mice that carried genetic signatures like those found in mouse populations in Portugal, whose mariners were also reckoned to be the first to settle on these islands.

    “These mice were obviously accidental travellers that were dispersed by Vikings across the Atlantic, to Iceland and Greenland and also the Azores and Madeira, we believe. It shows just how far the Vikings had spread.”

    The idea that the Vikings reached the Azores and Madeira before the Portuguese is intriguing. The latter are considered to be the pioneers of the Age of Discovery, in which Europeans explored and colonised the world, and these two destinations were among their very first settlements.
    Now it appears Portuguese mariners were merely following the Vikings – and their mice.
    https://www.pnas.org/content/118/41/e2108236118
    Abstract
    Humans have made such dramatic and permanent changes to Earth's landscapes that much of it is now substantially and irreversibly altered from its preanthropogenic state. Remote islands, until recently isolated from humans, offer insights into how these landscapes evolved in response to human-induced perturbations. However, little is known about when and how remote systems were colonized because archaeological data and historical records are scarce and incomplete. Here, we use a multiproxy approach to reconstruct the initial colonization and subsequent environmental impacts on the Azores Archipelago. Our reconstructions provide unambiguous evidence for widespread human disturbance of this archipelago starting between 700-60+50 and 850-60+60 Common Era (CE), ca. 700 y earlier than historical records suggest the onset of Portuguese settlement of the islands. Settlement proceeded in three phases, during which human pressure on the terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems grew steadily (i.e., through livestock introductions, logging, and fire), resulting in irreversible changes. Our climate models suggest that the initial colonization at the end of the early Middle Ages (500 to 900 CE) occurred in conjunction with anomalous northeasterly winds and warmer Northern Hemisphere temperatures. These climate conditions likely inhibited exploration from southern Europe and facilitated human settlers from the northeast Atlantic. These results are consistent with recent archaeological and genetic data suggesting that the Norse were most likely the earliest settlers on the islands.

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    Interesting, I wish you luck with your thread. This will be a doosey.
    Anglo Saxon + Frank (4.336)
    Viking Danish + Frank (4.338)
    Gael + Frank (4.39)
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    Viking Danish + Anglo Saxon (4.568)

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    godly Orcadian mice genes

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    It's possible, i have read about northern mice bofore both in Azores and Madeira. Also there was no Kingdom of Portugal during the viking age, from 793 to 1066 (Viking Age) there was still reconquista going on in the Iberian Peninsula. Portugal was only recognized as kingdom in 1143.

    My only question is why didn't the vikings take advantage of this? The Azores are very mild and agriculture is possible, and also there was no people living there:



    One possibility (considering this happened) was that this was only one single ship that shipwrecked on one of the islands


    Huge statement on the article btw

    Now it appears Portuguese mariners were merely following the Vikings – and their mice.

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    Next thread: Vikings discovered the moon.

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    I have heard something related this week at the radio :



    The Vikings were the first to reach America, exactly 1000 years ago


    There was already evidence of a Viking presence in America. It has been known for 60 years that Northern mariners landed on the Island of Newfoundland. But we could not date this presence.

    It was known for 60 years that the Vikings had reached the Island of Newfoundland but without a specific date. Researchers have finally achieved this, using a solar storm and the traces it left in tree rings as a marker: the Vikings were in Newfoundland in 1021. The clarifications of Mathilde Fontez, editor-in-chief of Epsiloon.

    franceinfo: Nordic navigators discovered America long before Columbus... 1000 years ago?

    Mathilde Fontez: 1000 years all right! It is known today: in 1021 the Vikings were in America. It is an international team that has just given proof. Tracking the amount of carbon-14 present in trees at a known archaeological site in Newfoundland…

    Did we already know that the Vikings had landed in Newfoundland?

    Yes. And for a long time. Since the 60s - 70s. At the time, remains were found, in particular the remains of a kind of village, by the sea, on a site that is now called l'Anse au Meadows. There are buildings, objects, that do not resemble those built at the time by native Americans. The place is considered a major archaeological site. It is even classified as a UNESCO heritage site.


    But archaeologists could not date this Viking presence. There were large field campaigns, excavations. Norse sagas have also been extensively studied. But all we could say is that the Vikings had probably come there at the end of the first millennium. Without much more precision.

    And there the researchers used a new technique?

    This is a known technique: it is normally used to find ancient solar storms. You're going to tell me you don't see the relationship between solar storms and Vikings. But I assure you, there is one…

    When the Sun erupts, it happens from time to time, it sends puffs of charged particles towards the Earth, which interact with the atmosphere. And it forms carbon-14. When there is a solar storm, then there is momentarily a higher rate of this element in the air. And it is stored in trees. So then just study the tree rings, you know those circles that mark the growth of a tree, to find those that are concentrated in carbon 14, and therefore date the eruption.

    Now, we know that there was an eruption near the date of arrival of the Vikings in America, in 993. So the researchers came up with the idea of looking for traces of it in the wood used to build the buildings of L'Anse aux Meadows, and they found it. The rings of this wood show that it was cut precisely 28 years after the eruption, in 1021!

    January 20, 2015 in Canada. L'Anse aux Meadows, a UNESCO World Heritage site since 1978. (DEA / C. SAPPA / DE AGOSTINI EDITORIAL / GETTY IMAGES)

    Doesn't that mean the Vikings landed in America in 1021?

    No, you're right. We can just say that they were present in 1021.

    But this is already a lot. This gives an anchor in time, for the first time, to tell the story of America's first discoverers.



    it's a strong probability when you look at the (controversial) Vinland map ,but i don't find solid traces of the fact than the vikings ,probably more the normans than the varanguians, had discovered the azores



    because before that we were invaded by the Vikings in 845

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Paris_(845)

    there is some facts of their presence in the southern europe and the iberic peninsula for the normans :
    The Normans began appearing in the military confrontations between Christians and Muslims in the Iberian Peninsula since the early eleventh century. The first Norman who appears in the narrative sources was Roger I of Tosny who according to Ademar of Chabannes and the later Chronicle of St Pierre le Vif went to aid the Barcelonese in a series of raids against the Andalusi Muslims circa 1018.[34] Later in the eleventh century, other Norman adventurers such as Robert Crispin and Walter Giffard participated in the probably papal organised siege of Barbastro of 1064. Even after the Norman conquest of England in 1066, the Normans continued to participate in ventures in the peninsula. After the Frankish conquest of the Holy Land during the First Crusade, the Normans began to be encouraged to participate in ventures of conquest in the northeast of the peninsula. The most significant example of this was the incursion of Rotrou II of Perche and Robert Burdet in the 1120s in the Ebro frontier. By 1129 Robert Burdet had been granted a semi-independent principality in the city of Tarragona by the then Archbishop of this see, Oleguer Bonestruga. Several others of Rotrou's Norman followers were rewarded with lands in the Ebro valley by King Alfonso I of Aragon for their services.[35]

    With the rising popularity of the sea route to the Holy Land, Norman and Anglo-Norman crusaders also started to be encouraged locally by Iberian prelates to participate in the Portuguese incursions into the western areas of the Peninsula. The first of these incursions occurred when a fleet of these Crusaders was invited by the Portuguese king Afonso I Henriques to conquer the city of Lisbon in 1142.[36] Although this Siege of Lisbon (1142) was a failure it created a precedent for their involvement in Portugal. So in 1147 when another group of Norman and other groups of crusaders from Northern Europe arrived in Porto on their way to join the crusading forces of the Second Crusade, the Bishop of Porto and later Afonso Henriques according to De expugnatione Lyxbonensi convinced them to help with the siege of Lisbon. This time the city was captured and according to the arrangement agreed upon with the Portuguese monarch many of them settled in the newly sacked city.[37] The following year the remainder of the crusading fleet, including a substantial number of Anglo-Normans, was invited by the count of Barcelona, Ramon Berenguer IV, to participate in the siege of Tortosa (1148). Again the Normans were rewarded with lands in the newly conquered frontier city.[38]



    you should taks a closer look at : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Co...ntact_theories

    In 1925, Soren Larsen wrote a book claiming that a joint Danish-Portuguese expedition landed in Newfoundland or Labrador in 1473 and again in 1476. Larsen claimed that Didrik Pining and Hans Pothorst served as captains, while João Vaz Corte-Real and the possibly mythical John Scolvus served as navigators, accompanied by Álvaro Martins.[129] Nothing beyond circumstantial evidence has been found to support Larsen's claims.[130]

    The historical record shows that Basque fishermen were present in Newfoundland and Labrador from at least 1517 onward (therefore predating all recorded European settlements in the region except those of the Norse). The Basques' fishing expeditions led to significant trade and cultural exchanges with Native Americans. A fringe theory suggests that Basque sailors first arrived in North America prior to Columbus' voyages to the New World (some sources suggest the late 14th century as a tentative date) but kept the destination a secret in order to avoid competition over the fishing resources of the North American coasts. There is no historical or archaeological evidence to support this claim.[131]
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    Vikings should have ruled the world, they were at the root of the master nation of biggestest country in the world, Russia (I include Ukraine and Belarus). people in my home village call themselves rusnaky, which traces back to how Finns called Swedes, so to Vikings. too bad they didn't take advantage of the foothold they had in all regions of Europe plus Northern Atlantic America during early Middle Ages

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    Vikings discovered the Azores? I know this anti-Northern forum hates and dismisses them, but another cool achievement potentially.
    The Vikings didn't really care for distant colonies, and the Azores are 2100 miles away from any Viking settlements, quite a different feat from sailing a trade route that's been active since the time of the Late Bronze Age. Supposedly there's Carthaginian artifacts on the Azores too.

    Nobody wanted to live completely surrounded by the sea in islands prone to volcanoes and earthquakes, they were not necessarily willing to learn to adapt to life in different climates. They made it to Iceland, Greenland and Canada after all. Azores doesn't seem so unlikely.

    Spoiler!


    Shipwrecks surviving from this period are very rare, by the way. Very few Viking shipwrecks have ever been found. What makes their voyage so impressive was not so much the sailing into the unknown, but the ships they did it in. They were basically giant canoes. There was no cover from rain or sea spray. There were no comfortable places to sit. They also rowed to most of their destinations.

    The Vikings did that entire journey damp, at the very least, but more likely spent the entire time wet. They did not have anything like Gore-Tex and dehydrated food to take. They had animal skins and what they hunted along the way. The North Sea and North Atlantic are extremely dangerous waters. But this was less of a problem during the medieval warm period, which is the time of the Vikings.

    You'd also inevitably have the occasional ship swept off course by a sudden storm. Being skilled navigators, most ships that survived the storm itself would likely make it home and be able to retrace their path in the future. Even if they didn't explicitly set out to find new lands beyond the horizon, they presumably would have stumbled upon the lands eventually.

    In the 1970s, a guy in Minnesota rebuilt a Viking ship and his kids and crew sailed it from Duluth, Minnesota to Norway. The Roskilde Viking Ship museum in Denmark conducts experimental journeys in reconstructed Viking ships based on archaeological finds.

    Anyway, I haven't come across a good thread that I feel like I gained something from participating in here for years now. All people here ever talk about is Latin America "being white", boomer movies, some fat lonely gypsy's hypothetical retard questions/bait that get hundreds of replies, rants from literal 42 year old virgins, and other nonsense in general.

    Woggy old cunts like renaissance12 pops up in every thread related to Northerners lately, we aren’t going to accomplish anything by engaging with him. They should unban Centurion lel.

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    Carbon dating on these structures found out they are way older than the time of the first Portuguese settlers:

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ma...h=722&dpr=1.25

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    Vikings discovered the Azores?

    No
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY7449/
    E-V22 - E-BY7449 - E-BY7566 - E-FT155550
    According to oral family tradition E-FT155550 comes from a deserter of Napoleon's troops (1808-1813) who stayed in Spain and changed his surname.

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