View Poll Results: Confederates were

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  • Fools mostly who were duped by leaders who were traitors and crazies

    3 30.00%
  • they were righteous

    7 70.00%
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Thread: Were Southern American Confederates traitors and paranoid fools or were they right?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    Why are you using leftist talking points? It had very little to do with slavery. It was about Anti Federalist South vs the Federalist north. This war started long before 1861.
    I am not using leftist anything. It's delusional to think secession was caused by mere import tariffs and non-existent threats to states rights. It was about a fear that Lincoln would abolish slavery and freed blacks would destroy Southern civilization. Granted the latter almost happened during Reconstruction era which was an evil social experiment and is happening to your whole country now, but Lincoln was a moderate and would never had done what Radical Republicans did. He did not even want to abolish slavery for fear of Southern rebellion at least, but the war forced his hand and also brought the Radicals to power in Congress and after his death you know what happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheForeigner View Post
    I am not using leftist anything. It's delusional to think secession was caused by mere import tariffs and non-existent threats to states rights. It was about a fear that Lincoln would abolish slavery and freed blacks would destroy Southern civilization. Granted the latter almost happened during Reconstruction era which was an evil social experiment and is happening to your whole country now, but Lincoln was a moderate and would never had done what Radical Republicans did. He did not even want to abolish slavery for fear of Southern rebellion at least, but the war forced his hand and also brought the Radicals to power in Congress and after his death you know what happened.
    That is the official narrative created by northern liberals. The North won the war and made this into what they believed. Lincoln wasn't even an abolitionist. Let's argue that even if slavery were the initial cause of the war, it certainly wasn't by 1863. Jefferson Davis himself said Independence, not slavery was what they fought for. Lincoln himself had very similar views about Negroes as anyone else of his time. He felt Whites were superior in every way and wanted to ship the blacks back to Africa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    That is the official narrative created by northern liberals. The North won the war and made this into what they believed. Lincoln wasn't even an abolitionist. Let's argue that even if slavery were the initial cause of the war, it certainly wasn't by 1863. Jefferson Davis himself said Independence, not slavery was what they fought for. Lincoln himself had very similar views about Negroes as anyone else of his time. He felt Whites were superior in every way and wanted to ship the blacks back to Africa.
    I also said he was not an abolitionist or at least he never said publicly he would abolish slavery. Why did the South want independence? To protect slavery from Northern abolitionists and they also thought for some reason that Lincoln was one of them. Maybe because he opposed the expansion of slavery in to the Western territories. I know that his racial views were the same as of most Americans, North and South, at the time.
    As for this "confederate heritage" stuff and the way you guys interpret this piece of history, it's really about the normal human desire to be proud of one's ancestors and not wanting to denounce them. You should just admit they were wrong though.
    I also should say that in my opinion it was crazies like John Brown that scared the South into secession with bleeding Kansas before the war and all the jackass abolitionists cheering him on as he murdered Southern settlers in Kansas territory with his band of thugs. They got the wrong idea that Lincoln and most Northerners were like these radical morons and that's how it happened. All this was related to slavery though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    That is the official narrative created by northern liberals. The North won the war and made this into what they believed. Lincoln wasn't even an abolitionist. Let's argue that even if slavery were the initial cause of the war, it certainly wasn't by 1863. Jefferson Davis himself said Independence, not slavery was what they fought for. Lincoln himself had very similar views about Negroes as anyone else of his time. He felt Whites were superior in every way and wanted to ship the blacks back to Africa.
    He should have campaigned on that. He would have got more people on his side and stopped a lot of bloodshed, and curtailed all of America's future racial problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    He should have campaigned on that. He would have got more people on his side and stopped a lot of bloodshed, and curtailed all of America's future racial problems.
    I read that it was thought by many even in the 19th century that it was impossible or at least extremely difficult and expensive to ship them anywhere and then replace them as a work force. Maybe he should just have tried to take a moderate Southerner as his running mate, like he had Andrew Johnson as his vp in his second term and condemn John Brown and radicals. Campaign as a pro-Union above all and don't care about slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheForeigner View Post
    Hope no Southerners or Americans will be offended by this. It's just that I have found this ACW stuff very interesting for a very long time. I always wondered how could Americans fight and kill each other over negro slavery. I know the Northerners and Lincoln mostly just wanted to save the Union, which in my eyes makes them the sane patriots. But you're not gonna convince me that secession of the Southern states was not about protecting slavery. Tell us what are your opinions about this war and about Southern Confederates in particular. I think they were fools mostly and the leadership was made up of traitors and crazies. Lincoln did not even wanted originally to abolish slavery, but only to stop it's expansion into Western territories. But Southerners became convinced that he was under the influence of the radical abolitionists who were also often nuts, if you consider their support for mass murderer and terrorist John Brown.
    Many very effective arguments have been employed to explain the War Between the States as not being about slavery. But slavery, itself, is so indefensible, and miserably tortuous a state, that it ought to be banished...let it take the illustrious Southern states with it, too, down the toilet of history, THAT is how horrible a thing slavery is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toddy Frent View Post
    Many very effective arguments have been employed to explain the War Between the States as not being about slavery. But slavery, itself, is so indefensible, and miserably tortuous a state, that it ought to be banished...let it take the illustrious Southern states with it, too, down the toilet of history, THAT is how horrible a thing slavery is.
    There was still slavery in the North too. When many of the Negroes in the South had already been freed, no longer slaves . The argument for slavery was really a psy op.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    There was still slavery in the North too. When many of the Negroes in the South had already been freed, no longer slaves . The argument for slavery was really a psy op.
    Don't lie buddy. Slavery was abolished in the North decades before the war.

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    Lightbulb in fact, he did: there are numerous accounts of him doing so in campaign-speeches and in private

    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    ...Lincoln himself had very similar views about Negroes as anyone else of his time.
    He felt Whites were superior in every way
    and wanted to ship the blacks back to Africa.
    He should have campaigned on that.
    He would have got more people on his side and stopped a lot of bloodshed,
    and curtailed all of America's future racial problems.


    the north was relatively poor.

    the southern states were harvesting the natural resources
    accessible via the mississippi river

    and shipping it all to europe.

    the north was financing the federal government
    with export tariffs
    on those shipments to europe.

    the newspaper headlines
    (at the threat of southern secession)
    were all about the loss of revenue —

    not slavery.
    Last edited by lei.talk; 02-21-2024 at 09:23 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Toddy Frent View Post
    Many very effective arguments have been employed to explain the War Between the States as not being about slavery. But slavery, itself, is so indefensible, and miserably tortuous a state, that it ought to be banished...let it take the illustrious Southern states with it, too, down the toilet of history, THAT is how horrible a thing slavery is.
    The South has no monopoly on that. Go soak your brainwashed head in a toilet full of diarrhea.

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