What is your opinion of Austria-Hungary?

[Turul Karom]

Well I think prison for putting a foreign flag on a public building might be too harsh, but a fine is not harsh at all. Why should the Szekler flag be on a public building, when it has no official status in Romania?

The fine is several thousand dollars worth of punishment, even if flown with a Romanian flag. Car dealers in Romania have more flag rights than Szeklers. If Romania punished the Roma population as much as it punished Hungarians, then maybe they would behave differently, too.

Again, you are missing the point. Szekler autonomy was really a thing once, even after WW2, within Romania. The idea being that, you don't get to absorb a large, unique ethnicity that makes up a massive chunk and majority of large counties of your country and then not expect them to not be happy about it, especially if autonomy was taken away when it was given to them in living memory.

Common sense. Imagine Hungary controlled Romanian-occupied land of some unique Romanian group, who considers themselves cultural bastions of Romanian history and lore, and then not expecting them to agitate for their identity to be given more independence? Who would think that any group, anywhere, would respond to this situation without pushing back?

[TheForeigner]

The fine is several thousand dollars worth of punishment, even if flown with a Romanian flag. Car dealers in Romania have more flag rights than Szeklers. If Romania punished the Roma population as much as it punished Hungarians, then maybe they would behave differently, too.

Again, you are missing the point. Szekler autonomy was really a thing once, even after WW2, within Romania. The idea being that, you don't get to absorb a large, unique ethnicity that makes up a massive chunk and majority of large counties of your country and then not expect them to not be happy about it, especially if autonomy was taken away when it was given to them in living memory.

Common sense. Imagine Hungary controlled Romanian-occupied land of some unique Romanian group, who considers themselves cultural bastions of Romanian history and lore, and then not expecting them to agitate for their identity to be given more independence? Who would think that any group, anywhere, would respond to this situation without pushing back?

OK maybe you have a point. Maybe they are too harsh sometimes with your activists, but our current political class also punishes Romanians in many ways, just to squeeze money from them as much as possible. As far as the Szeklerland autonomy thing, I don't have a strong opinion about it either way. I don't know what is the best solution for that, but you are right that there was a Hungarian or Magyar autonomous region there in the communist era before Ceausescu came to power. Many Romanians fear that an autonomous Szeklerland would persecute ethnic Romanians there and that it might try to gain independence and unite with Hungary on the Kosovo model.

[ixulescu]

If Romania did not want to deal with the Hungarian-Szekler population without problems, then they should have not taken us into their nation after WW1. For example, you cannot fly the crescent-moon flag on a public building. You get a massive fine and even jail, which has happened to Hungarians in Romania already. Even foreign diplomats have been punished for talking to them. Why would anyone want to fly the flag if they were not Szekler in the first place reminiscing about autonomy? It isn't even weird. Autonomy happened before, why not again? Romanians who find Szeklers difficult have only the past to blame for taking too much of Hungary and now are dealing with the consequences.

It's important to note that Szekler's autonomy was disbanded by Hungary not Romania. I'm not counting here the Szekler region founded by Stalin - that was just a Soviet bargaining chip against Romanians.

In terms of Szekler heraldry, they are present on the coat of arms of the Szekler counties (Harghita and Covasna). Sadly, a mutual agreement on the flag is still not reached. IMO the best proposal was to fly both flags (Romanian and Szekler) at the same time in the Szekler region.

Now, the organization that pushed the Szekler flag the most is an organization that advocates for autonomy, which is not well viewed at all (to put it in mild terms) in the unitary Romanian state, and so this flag has become sort of a secessionist symbol in Romania. I still think a rational solution can be reached.

[Carpatz]

The fine is several thousand dollars worth of punishment, even if flown with a Romanian flag. Car dealers in Romania have more flag rights than Szeklers. If Romania punished the Roma population as much as it punished Hungarians, then maybe they would behave differently, too.

Again, you are missing the point. Szekler autonomy was really a thing once, even after WW2, within Romania. The idea being that, you don't get to absorb a large, unique ethnicity that makes up a massive chunk and majority of large counties of your country and then not expect them to not be happy about it, especially if autonomy was taken away when it was given to them in living memory.

Common sense. Imagine Hungary controlled Romanian-occupied land of some unique Romanian group, who considers themselves cultural bastions of Romanian history and lore, and then not expecting them to agitate for their identity to be given more independence? Who would think that any group, anywhere, would respond to this situation without pushing back?

All this crying over a turan larp flag that was designed in 2004

[Turul Karom]

I didn't say that Hungary must be USA, i have talked about only the economy, and they do it much better than socialist maniac europeans. This socialism, aid, welfare system is the reason why gypsies have higher birth rate and why tons of migrant want to go to Europe. They want only money not working. The totally economic liberalism is much better than any socialist economic model. Another important thing we should defend our borders with weapons, and we should give orders to border guards to shoot, this is what EU and USA don't do.

I was referring to the USA in the context of economy, since economy and social issues feed into one another and make a feedback loop. I do not like socialism, but I think that the economy is not the only answer to the idea of the demographic future, which is why I said that the USA still has a below 2 level despite not nearly being as socialistic as Hungary. Which is why I ask you: why would adopting the American economics fix the birth rate if the American birth rate is below 2? Think about that question. I am not arguing for socialism.

You and I both know that border guards with guns would be seen as the ultimate wrongdoing. All it would take is for a migrant to slit the throat or shoot another, or kill a kid or a woman (the one woman out of 10.000 men) and then the media would be all over saying that the Hungarians are massacring the migrants because they just hate people with a different skin color or hair texture than themselves. I agree that borders are meant to be protected, but nowhere on earth, not even 2nd-world countries, seem to care about the border and actively work against countries that do. This is because migrants are seen as panderable and political capital as well as cheap labor to be abused by multinational companies with worth more than most nations combined. Profits do not care about borders.

As factual as a Turanic Hungaria

Turanic enough for the West to justify giving Transylvania to Romania, apparently.

Unless you have some problem with the fact "don't lose wars" instead..

[ixulescu]

Turanic enough for the West to justify giving Transylvania to Romania, apparently.

Unless you have some problem with the fact "don't lose wars" instead..

My man, Hungary did exactly the same thing. The whole point of Apponyi's message at the peace conference was that Romanians are an inferior population, unable to govern itself. Let's stop bringing back this shit from the past.

[TheForeigner]

Actually Romania got Transylvania and the other territories because it was an ally of the winning Entente powers and it was promised those lands by treaty before entering the war. It also helped that the local majority population organized itself politically at the end of the war and called for union with Romania and that Romanian army crushed the communist Bela Kun's regime armies. And there was also Wilson's principle of national self-determination. The 'Asiatic Hungarians' was a very small part of it.

[Kökény]

OK maybe you have a point. Maybe they are too harsh sometimes with your activists, but our current political class also punishes Romanians in many ways, just to squeeze money from them as much as possible. As far as the Szeklerland autonomy thing, I don't have a strong opinion about it either way. I don't know what is the best solution for that, but you are right that there was a Hungarian or Magyar autonomous region there in the communist era before Ceausescu came to power. Many Romanians fear that an autonomous Szeklerland would persecute ethnic Romanians there and thatit might try to gain independence and unite with Hungary on the Kosovo model.

Lol. The thing is, Székelys never wanted a state of their own. They were happy in their little self-governing seats. Of course it wasn't for free, they paid with their blood.

[Kökény]

All this crying over a turan larp flag that was designed in 2004

That flag is older than your country.

[Turul Karom]

All this crying over a turan larp flag that was designed in 2004

Imagine arguing that a car dealership in Romania has more rights to fly a flag than any other "created" flag.

Regardless, the Szekler crescent-star coat of arms and flag design is thousands of years old. It is even shown in the Gesta Hungarorum. The current flag is simply a newer version. Here is the flag from the 15th century: