Is England closer to North Dutch or Danish

[Didac]

Updated averages:

Distance to: English
0.26115130 English_Midlands
0.74518454 English_Southwest
0.91153716 Cornish
0.96441692 English_Southeast
1.14625477 English_North
1.66346025 Welsh
2.32952785 Scottish_East
2.48487424 Scottish_North_Highlands
2.50137962 Scottish_Northeast
2.55695131 Dutch
2.57246963 French_Northwest
2.84049291 Orcadian
2.88404230 Scottish
2.99506260 Scottish_Southwest
3.06643115 Dutch_Central
3.11709801 Irish_Leinster
3.84915575 Scottish_Gaidhealtachd
4.19091875 Irish
4.35086198 Dutch_North
4.38252210 Dutch_South
4.38548743 West_Scottish
4.46000000 German_Northwest
4.57062359 Irish_Connacht
4.64175613 Irish_Munster
5.04566150 Irish_Ulster
5.30238626 Flemish
5.56941649 Icelandic
5.96846714 North_German
6.03702741 Belgian
6.48113416 German_West
6.65438201 Afrikaner
6.66972263 Denmark
6.98239214 Norwegian
7.31184655 Norway_South_Central
7.40709795 Sweden_Götaland
8.11462877 German
8.71371907 Sweden_Svealand_West
8.94868705 Swedish
9.08264279 French_Northeast
10.03049849 German_South
10.55189083 Pennsylvania_Dutch
11.21509251 French_Alsace
11.57603559 Swiss_German2
12.23063776 Swiss_German
12.60771589 Sweden_Svealand_East
12.76664404 French_Central
14.33469218 French
14.82785891 Austrian
15.48880241 Swiss_French
16.71438303 German_East

Regions:

Distance to:	English_Southeast
0.84988234	English_Midlands
0.96441692	English
1.45574723	English_Southwest
1.63847490	Cornish
2.03548520	English_North
2.22159852	French_Northwest
2.55749878	Welsh
2.58032944	Dutch
3.20262392	Scottish_East
3.24772228	Dutch_Central
3.37228409	Scottish_North_Highlands
3.42628078	Scottish_Northeast
3.52292492	Dutch_South
3.66833750	Orcadian
3.71241162	Scottish
3.86244741	Scottish_Southwest
3.98449495	Irish_Leinster
4.36819185	German_Northwest
4.38011415	Flemish
4.65212855	Scottish_Gaidhealtachd
4.70354122	Dutch_North
5.06510612	Irish
5.11855448	Belgian
5.30299915	West_Scottish
5.42839755	Irish_Connacht

Distance to:	English_North
1.14625477	English
1.25952372	Welsh
1.33015037	English_Midlands
1.33514044	Cornish
1.37985506	English_Southwest
1.51234917	Scottish_Northeast
1.56671631	Scottish_East
1.78008427	Scottish_North_Highlands
1.82107111	Orcadian
2.03548520	English_Southeast
2.09351379	Scottish
2.13717103	Scottish_Southwest
2.40545214	Irish_Leinster
2.42711763	Dutch
2.66279928	Dutch_Central
2.87841971	Scottish_Gaidhealtachd
3.36096712	Irish
3.40317499	West_Scottish
3.59956942	French_Northwest
3.62823649	Dutch_North
3.68585133	Irish_Connacht
3.78821858	Irish_Munster
4.23308398	Irish_Ulster
4.26946132	German_Northwest
4.61212532	Icelandic

Distance to:	English_Southwest
0.61627916	Cornish
0.74518454	English
0.78121700	English_Midlands
1.37985506	English_North
1.42070405	Welsh
1.45574723	English_Southeast
2.30551513	Scottish_East
2.30614397	French_Northwest
2.33925202	Scottish_North_Highlands
2.44663034	Scottish_Northeast
2.91643618	Scottish
2.91885251	Orcadian
2.96054049	Irish_Leinster
2.98675409	Scottish_Southwest
3.17598804	Dutch
3.64525719	Dutch_Central
3.94293038	Scottish_Gaidhealtachd
4.05885452	Irish
4.27455261	West_Scottish
4.48754944	Irish_Connacht
4.49822187	Irish_Munster
4.57654892	Dutch_South
4.84920612	Irish_Ulster
4.85891963	Dutch_North
5.04123993	German_Northwest

Distance to:	English_Midlands
0.26115130	English
0.78121700	English_Southwest
0.84988234	English_Southeast
0.99804810	Cornish
1.33015037	English_North
1.80319161	Welsh
2.44855059	French_Northwest
2.49793915	Scottish_East
2.62293728	Dutch
2.65800677	Scottish_North_Highlands
2.66475140	Scottish_Northeast
3.00416378	Orcadian
3.05766251	Scottish
3.16275197	Scottish_Southwest
3.17301119	Dutch_Central
3.27687351	Irish_Leinster
4.01706360	Scottish_Gaidhealtachd
4.23217438	Dutch_South
4.35504305	Irish
4.46340677	Dutch_North
4.47774497	German_Northwest
4.57693129	West_Scottish
4.72878420	Irish_Connacht
4.80661003	Irish_Munster
5.13005848	Flemish

Even worse I thought grace’s was bad. French north west lol use something other than gedmatch updates etc davidski. I haven’t seen one legitimate true study looking at the populations themselves not using other proxy’s and outdated info

[Oliver109]

Updated averages:

Distance to: English
0.26115130 English_Midlands
0.74518454 English_Southwest
0.91153716 Cornish
0.96441692 English_Southeast
1.14625477 English_North
1.66346025 Welsh
2.32952785 Scottish_East
2.48487424 Scottish_North_Highlands
2.50137962 Scottish_Northeast
2.55695131 Dutch
2.57246963 French_Northwest
2.84049291 Orcadian
2.88404230 Scottish
2.99506260 Scottish_Southwest
3.06643115 Dutch_Central
3.11709801 Irish_Leinster
3.84915575 Scottish_Gaidhealtachd
4.19091875 Irish
4.35086198 Dutch_North
4.38252210 Dutch_South
4.38548743 West_Scottish
4.46000000 German_Northwest
4.57062359 Irish_Connacht
4.64175613 Irish_Munster
5.04566150 Irish_Ulster
5.30238626 Flemish
5.56941649 Icelandic
5.96846714 North_German
6.03702741 Belgian
6.48113416 German_West
6.65438201 Afrikaner
6.66972263 Denmark
6.98239214 Norwegian
7.31184655 Norway_South_Central
7.40709795 Sweden_Götaland
8.11462877 German
8.71371907 Sweden_Svealand_West
8.94868705 Swedish
9.08264279 French_Northeast
10.03049849 German_South
10.55189083 Pennsylvania_Dutch
11.21509251 French_Alsace
11.57603559 Swiss_German2
12.23063776 Swiss_German
12.60771589 Sweden_Svealand_East
12.76664404 French_Central
14.33469218 French
14.82785891 Austrian
15.48880241 Swiss_French
16.71438303 German_East

Regions:

Distance to:	English_Southeast
0.84988234	English_Midlands
0.96441692	English
1.45574723	English_Southwest
1.63847490	Cornish
2.03548520	English_North
2.22159852	French_Northwest
2.55749878	Welsh
2.58032944	Dutch
3.20262392	Scottish_East
3.24772228	Dutch_Central
3.37228409	Scottish_North_Highlands
3.42628078	Scottish_Northeast
3.52292492	Dutch_South
3.66833750	Orcadian
3.71241162	Scottish
3.86244741	Scottish_Southwest
3.98449495	Irish_Leinster
4.36819185	German_Northwest
4.38011415	Flemish
4.65212855	Scottish_Gaidhealtachd
4.70354122	Dutch_North
5.06510612	Irish
5.11855448	Belgian
5.30299915	West_Scottish
5.42839755	Irish_Connacht

Distance to:	English_North
1.14625477	English
1.25952372	Welsh
1.33015037	English_Midlands
1.33514044	Cornish
1.37985506	English_Southwest
1.51234917	Scottish_Northeast
1.56671631	Scottish_East
1.78008427	Scottish_North_Highlands
1.82107111	Orcadian
2.03548520	English_Southeast
2.09351379	Scottish
2.13717103	Scottish_Southwest
2.40545214	Irish_Leinster
2.42711763	Dutch
2.66279928	Dutch_Central
2.87841971	Scottish_Gaidhealtachd
3.36096712	Irish
3.40317499	West_Scottish
3.59956942	French_Northwest
3.62823649	Dutch_North
3.68585133	Irish_Connacht
3.78821858	Irish_Munster
4.23308398	Irish_Ulster
4.26946132	German_Northwest
4.61212532	Icelandic

Distance to:	English_Southwest
0.61627916	Cornish
0.74518454	English
0.78121700	English_Midlands
1.37985506	English_North
1.42070405	Welsh
1.45574723	English_Southeast
2.30551513	Scottish_East
2.30614397	French_Northwest
2.33925202	Scottish_North_Highlands
2.44663034	Scottish_Northeast
2.91643618	Scottish
2.91885251	Orcadian
2.96054049	Irish_Leinster
2.98675409	Scottish_Southwest
3.17598804	Dutch
3.64525719	Dutch_Central
3.94293038	Scottish_Gaidhealtachd
4.05885452	Irish
4.27455261	West_Scottish
4.48754944	Irish_Connacht
4.49822187	Irish_Munster
4.57654892	Dutch_South
4.84920612	Irish_Ulster
4.85891963	Dutch_North
5.04123993	German_Northwest

Distance to:	English_Midlands
0.26115130	English
0.78121700	English_Southwest
0.84988234	English_Southeast
0.99804810	Cornish
1.33015037	English_North
1.80319161	Welsh
2.44855059	French_Northwest
2.49793915	Scottish_East
2.62293728	Dutch
2.65800677	Scottish_North_Highlands
2.66475140	Scottish_Northeast
3.00416378	Orcadian
3.05766251	Scottish
3.16275197	Scottish_Southwest
3.17301119	Dutch_Central
3.27687351	Irish_Leinster
4.01706360	Scottish_Gaidhealtachd
4.23217438	Dutch_South
4.35504305	Irish
4.46340677	Dutch_North
4.47774497	German_Northwest
4.57693129	West_Scottish
4.72878420	Irish_Connacht
4.80661003	Irish_Munster
5.13005848	Flemish

Interesting how much further the French NE are from the English than the Flemish from the English, at least as far as appearances go the Flemish are much more similar in my view, it is interesting how close Norwegians are though considering that in many ways they look quite different from Brits and very much Scandinavian with Baltid influence.

[Grace O'Malley]

Nonsense they were 3 Danish and Dutch incursions there’s no French dna. Both the west and the east are Germanic. I understand Scotland and Ireland’s Norwegian pull but if u look Denmark doesn’t plot the same as Norway either. Ever thought it’d bc it’d the Danish plot and not the Norwegian one that’s more towards the North Sea. Scots and Irish plot closer to Norway bc they had Norwegian incursions not danish ones and vice versa.

You are incorrect and this has already been known previously but there is a big study coming out about the 50% turnover in the Iron Age.

Large-Scale Migration into Southern Britain During the Middle to Late Bronze Age
HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL

Present-day populations from England and Wales harbour more ancestry derived from Early European Farmers (EEF) than did people of the Early Bronze Age. To study how this occurred, we generated genome-wide data from 803 individuals, almost all from the Middle to Late Bronze Age and the Iron Age, increasing data in this period from Britain by 12-fold, and from Western and Central Europe by more than two-fold. Between 1000-875 BCE, EEF ancestry increased in southern Britain (England and Wales) but not in northern Britain (Scotland), due to incorporation into the population of a stream of migrants who arrived at this time and in previous centuries and who were genetically most similar to ancient individuals from France. These migrants cumulatively contributed about half the ancestry of Iron Age people of England and Wales, thereby documenting a previously unknown demographic process that is a plausible vector for the spread of early Celtic languages into Britain. These patterns are part of a broader trend of EEF ancestry proportions becoming more similar across Central and Western Europe in the Middle to Late Bronze Age, coincident with intensification of cultural exchange and highlighting this period as a peak of interaction and mobility. We find no evidence of a comparable rate of migration into Britain in the Iron Age. The distinct genetic trajectories of Britain and continental Europe in the Iron Age are also exemplified by the fact that the allele conferring lactase persistence rose to ~50% frequency in Britain by this time whereas it was only ~7% in Central Europe and underwent a comparable rise in frequency only a millennium later, a pattern that could only occur if there were qualitative differences in how dairy products were used in Britain and in Central Europe.

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB47891

[Didac]

You are incorrect and this has already been known previously but there is a big study coming out about the 50% turnover in the Iron Age.

Large-Scale Migration into Southern Britain During the Middle to Late Bronze Age
HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL

Present-day populations from England and Wales harbour more ancestry derived from Early European Farmers (EEF) than did people of the Early Bronze Age. To study how this occurred, we generated genome-wide data from 803 individuals, almost all from the Middle to Late Bronze Age and the Iron Age, increasing data in this period from Britain by 12-fold, and from Western and Central Europe by more than two-fold. Between 1000-875 BCE, EEF ancestry increased in southern Britain (England and Wales) but not in northern Britain (Scotland), due to incorporation into the population of a stream of migrants who arrived at this time and in previous centuries and who were genetically most similar to ancient individuals from France. These migrants cumulatively contributed about half the ancestry of Iron Age people of England and Wales, thereby documenting a previously unknown demographic process that is a plausible vector for the spread of early Celtic languages into Britain. These patterns are part of a broader trend of EEF ancestry proportions becoming more similar across Central and Western Europe in the Middle to Late Bronze Age, coincident with intensification of cultural exchange and highlighting this period as a peak of interaction and mobility. We find no evidence of a comparable rate of migration into Britain in the Iron Age. The distinct genetic trajectories of Britain and continental Europe in the Iron Age are also exemplified by the fact that the allele conferring lactase persistence rose to ~50% frequency in Britain by this time whereas it was only ~7% in Central Europe and underwent a comparable rise in frequency only a millennium later, a pattern that could only occur if there were qualitative differences in how dairy products were used in Britain and in Central Europe.

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB47891

Ur looking at very ancient dna which is common all over Europe I’m talking about modern dna within the last 1700 years

[Creoda]

Even worse I thought grace’s was bad. French north west lol use something other than gedmatch updates etc davidski. I haven’t seen one legitimate true study looking at the populations themselves not using other proxy’s and outdated info

Those averages are made from hundreds of individual gedmatch kits from the respective countries, what more do you want? There also have been studies comparing the populations, both in PCAs and Fst.

[Didac]

Those averages are made from hundreds of individual gedmatch kits from the respective countries, what more do you want? There also have been studies comparing the populations, both in PCAs and Fst.

Again gedmatch kits. It’s pretty simple all I want is up to date completely new sets. Your using an extremely outdated sit gedmatch is the least accurate outdated tool out there

[Grace O'Malley]

Ur looking at very ancient dna which is common all over Europe I’m talking about modern dna within the last 1700 years

What do you think makes populations what they are? You find fault in anything that doesn't support what you want but you don't post anything to back up what you say.

[Oliver109]

You are incorrect and this has already been known previously but there is a big study coming out about the 50% turnover in the Iron Age.

Large-Scale Migration into Southern Britain During the Middle to Late Bronze Age
HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL

Present-day populations from England and Wales harbour more ancestry derived from Early European Farmers (EEF) than did people of the Early Bronze Age. To study how this occurred, we generated genome-wide data from 803 individuals, almost all from the Middle to Late Bronze Age and the Iron Age, increasing data in this period from Britain by 12-fold, and from Western and Central Europe by more than two-fold. Between 1000-875 BCE, EEF ancestry increased in southern Britain (England and Wales) but not in northern Britain (Scotland), due to incorporation into the population of a stream of migrants who arrived at this time and in previous centuries and who were genetically most similar to ancient individuals from France. These migrants cumulatively contributed about half the ancestry of Iron Age people of England and Wales, thereby documenting a previously unknown demographic process that is a plausible vector for the spread of early Celtic languages into Britain. These patterns are part of a broader trend of EEF ancestry proportions becoming more similar across Central and Western Europe in the Middle to Late Bronze Age, coincident with intensification of cultural exchange and highlighting this period as a peak of interaction and mobility. We find no evidence of a comparable rate of migration into Britain in the Iron Age. The distinct genetic trajectories of Britain and continental Europe in the Iron Age are also exemplified by the fact that the allele conferring lactase persistence rose to ~50% frequency in Britain by this time whereas it was only ~7% in Central Europe and underwent a comparable rise in frequency only a millennium later, a pattern that could only occur if there were qualitative differences in how dairy products were used in Britain and in Central Europe.

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB47891

While i do think that there is a considerable amount of French dna in S Britain i do wonder how such a big migration did not alter the cephalic index greatly, the French still have rounder heads than the English and considerably rounder in central regions.

[Creoda]

Again gedmatch kits. It’s pretty simple all I want is up to date completely new sets. Your using an extremely outdated sit gedmatch is the least accurate outdated tool out there

For autosomal distances and comparing modern NW Euro populations they are not inaccurate or outdated. There are other measurements like IBD and Fst charts out there but they don't supercede or even disagree with these.

This academic chart shows basically the same thing as the K13 updated distances re: British Isles and Dutch populations

[Didac]

What do you think makes populations what they are? You find fault in anything that doesn't support what you want but you don't post anything to back up what you say.

Lol you’ve already yourself posted fst in the past clearly showing England’s closest population is to Netherlands then Denmark then Germany then the rest. And not france