R1a1 in India cuts across language, caste, tribe, and religion

[VikLevaPatel]

The Indian patrilineal pool is very diverse and cuts across language, caste, tribe, and religion. R1a1, R2, H1, and L1 are widely distributed across many castes, tribes, and religions of India. R2 is present primarily in India and Pakistan, although it originated in South Central Asia about 25,000 years ago.

Pic related are some Dravidian speaking tribal groups with high R1a frequency.

r1.png

While several IE speakers have lower or similar R1a frequency such as

Kashmiri Pandits (19.61%)
Punjabi Brahmins (35%)
Gujarati Brahmins (32%)
Gujarati Patels (22%)
(Sahoo et al)

muhhap.jpg

The R haplogroup emerged about 35,000 years ago, and R1a emerged about 15,000 years ago. There is considerable controversy regarding the origin and spread of this haplotype, and its role in the spread of Indo-European languages. The "inside India" theory (e.g., Sharma et al. 2009) suggests that R1a1 originated in India 10,000 to 12,000 years ago, if not earlier -- today about 125 million Indian men have the R1a1 haplotype. It spread from India/Iran into parts of Eastern Europe, Russia, and further West starting around 5,000 years ago.

On the Origins of r1a1: https://archive.md/n9Mx6/1dc533788bb...a2734f0ed4.png

Y-haplogroups percentage distribution in studied regional population groups of India:
https://archive.md/ye2wa
https://www.nature.com/articles/jhg20082/tables/1

Bihar Paswan
R1a1 (40.74)
The Paswan, also known as Dusadh, are a Dalit community from eastern India. They are found mainly in the states of Bihar, Uttar Pradesh and Jharkhand. The Urdu word Paswan means bodyguard or "one who defends".

The Dusadhs account for over 30 per cent of the Dalit population, giving them numerical heft in the state — the first factor to make any caste group dominant, according to Rahul Verma, fellow at the Delhi-based think tank Centre for Policy Research (CPR). The other two factors, according to Verma, are economic resources and political power. The Paswans, it is believed, have historically had access to both despite belonging to the lowest stratum in the caste hierarchy laid down in the Vedic mythology. Their martial roots are believed to have lent the community a distinctive physical prowess. The word Dusadh literally means one who cannot be controlled or is “insurmountable”.

https://archive.md/yIwUO#selection-2245.0-2281.70

The Indian origin of paternal haplogroup R1a1* substantiates the autochthonous origin of Brahmins and the caste system:
https://archive.md/SQK5Y
https://www.nature.com/articles/jhg20082

Several researchers pointed out on the basis of the further analysis that this male lineage of DNA known as R1a1 had not arrived from outside but was indigenous to India These researches also noted the formidable presence of this DNA (R1a1) in the dravidian speaking South Indians as well as the austro-asiatic speaking tribal groups. In fact this DNA had migrated to Southeast Asia also from where it even reached Madagascar.

https://archive.md/GVGKA#selection-4285.1-4285.427

In rather broad terms, it is possible to make some generalisations. H is found in greater percentage among the Austro-Asiatic tribal population, L among the Dravidian language (such as Tamil and Telugu) speaking non-tribal population, R1a1 among speakers of the Indo-European languages (such as Hindi, Punjabi and Bengali). But there is no way on this basis to distinguish any individual from another. An individual with R1a1 could as well be a tribal as an Indo-European language speaker. Nor can discrete groupings be identified in any clear-cut way. The L marker could be found in the north of the country, and H could show up among some Brahmins. Every ethnic group has members that belong to more than one haplogroup, indicating that they have different lines of ancestors. There was no ethnic group in these analyses that could trace the genetic ancestry of all its members to a single MRCA.

Genetic distances estimated from autosomal polymorphisms have typically demonstrated that caste populations tend to occupy a position intermediate between European and East Asian populations.

Pure AASI: https://archive.md/FUrE8/8f9afeb0183...045854355f.jpg

holocene.jpg

[Lemminkäinen]

It spread from India/Iran into parts of Eastern Europe, Russia, and further West starting around 5,000 years ago.

Say this to European R1a specialists. Without getting stuck into R1a we have a general problem with linguistic questions disturbung natural sciences like genetics. People should be more cautious of this dilemma, because linguists come from the back door into your mind and destroy your ability to think logically.

[VikLevaPatel]

India Acquired Language, Not Genes, From West. Vijendra Kashyap, director of India's National Institute of Biologicals in Noida, said India may have acquired agricultural techniques and languages from the west, but very few genes. Peter Underhill, a research scientist at the Stanford University School of Medicine's department of genetics, says he harbors no doubts that Indo-European speakers did move into India. But he agrees with Kashyap that their genetic contribution appears small.

"It doesn't look like there was a massive flow of genes that came in a few thousand years ago," he said. "Clearly people came in to India and brought their culture, language, and some genes." "But I think that the genetic impact of those people was minor," he added. "You don't really see an equivalent genetic replacement the way that you do with the language replacement."

It is generally assumed that language is more strongly correlated to genetics, as compared to social status or geography, because humans mostly do not tend to cross language boundaries while choosing marriage partners. Language can be acquired and has been in cases of 'elite dominance,' where adoption of a language can be forced but strong genetic differences remain because of the lack of admixture between the dominant and the weak populations. Although few of the earlier studies have shown that language is a good predictor of genetic affinity and that Y chromosome is more strongly correlated with linguistic boundaries, it is not always so.

Thus, language shift is a phenomenon where a new language is adopted by a population with virtually no influence on their genetic make-up.

If steppe-dwelling Central Asians did lend language and technology, but not many genes, to northern India, the region may have changed far less over the centuries than previously believed.

"I think if you could get into a time machine and visit northern India 10,000 years ago, you'd see people. Similar to the people there today," says Underhill. "They wouldn't be similar to people from Bangalore [in the south]."

download.jpg

The detailed structure of the clusters probably needs more data to be established. As far as Bengal is concerned, the tribals cluster with North and Central Dravidians; and Bengalis as a whole cluster with these and Maharashtrians. However, the importance of caste shows up; except in Punjab and Maharashtra, the Brahmins do not cluster with the other castes. On the other hand, the Brahmins of different regions do not cluster together either; in a two principle component analysis, brahmins from Bombay, Kerala, UP, Punjab, Maharashtra and West Bengal show a steady progression along the diagonal. This could be due to genetic drift in these highly endogamous units.

https://archive.md/nCCS3#selection-683.0-683.672

Gujaratis form a distinct cluster: https://archive.md/l3HG8#selection-8823.0-8845.2

23andMe also identified this distinct group of Gujaratis: https://archive.is/HXibv

The various anthropometric surveys conducted in Gujarat and also similar surveys in Uttar Pradesh, Bengal and Western India have shown that in an ethno-linguistic region the castes are physically more related to one another than to similar castes outside the region (Dobzhansky, 1962; Ghurye, 1957; Bhattacharya, 1985).

Comparative linguistics has placed the origin of European Roma in India, particularly in the northwestern region, as Romani is closely related to Punjabi and Kashmiri languages. However, the social organization and cultural dynamics in Indian populations lead to substructure in closely-related linguistic groups, as is reflected in the different proportions of Ancestral North Indian (ANI) and Ancestral South Indian (ASI) genetic components shown in groups even living in the same geographic region, which prevents them to be considered as genetically homogeneous groups and challenges the retrieval of the origins of Roma based solely on linguistic data.

https://journals.plos.org/plosgeneti...l.pgen.1008417
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post7354857

ancestry.jpg

The best evidence supports 21 ancestries that delineate genetic structure of present-day human populations. Ancestry data yield insight into a deeper past than linguistic data can, while linguistic data provide clarity to ancestry data. South Indian ancestry correlates best with the Dravidian language family whereas Southern Asian ancestry correlates more with the Indo-Iranian language family, consistent with a distribution throughout Persia and Pakistan.

People who speak the same language – or even similar languages – tended to be much more closely related, even if they lived far apart geographically.... Indians who spoke Indo-European and Dravidian languages were more closely tied to Europeans, while Indians who speak Tibeto-Burman languages were more closely related to East Asians.

https://archive.md/L8Xof

[VikLevaPatel]

“The Paswans are a martial and warrior race. There is a school of thought that they were the Gahlots (Rajputs) of Rajasthan, and they migrated from Rajasthan fighting the Mughals, and moved to the eastern parts of the country after being defeated, and refused to convert,” said Sanjay Paswan, a senior BJP leader and former Union minister. “After the displacement, they lost their caste and social status.” In the 1900s, when caste associations became a tool for different communities to demand social and political rights, the Paswans became the first Dalit group to form a caste association, and lay a claim on their purportedly lost Kshatriya status, said Badri Narayan, director of the G.B. Pant Social Science Institute, Allahabad.

As this thesis points out, many castes, especially the lower castes, link their caste identity to Hindu mythology and folklore. The connection is used to legitimize and substantiate the caste identity. For example, the Yadav caste that catapulted to political domination in Bihar in the 1990s under the leadership of Laloo Prasad Yadav. The Yadav caste is listed as other backward class (OBC) and the historical occupation of the caste is identified as cattle herders. The Yadav community believe themselves to be the descendants of the Yadu Dynasty also known to be the linage of Lord Krishna (Desai, Khusboo J., "Corruption in the Indian Political System" (2011). Honors Theses. 964).

Nawal Mridulya may be correct overall but it is certainly wrong to say that everyone wants to be a 'Kshatriya' [warrior/politician].

There is no comparison between Kshatriya and Brahman. Brahmans of North India were persecuted by Muslim rulers. Most are poor. They have traditionally lived off the benevolence and patronizing of Kshatriyas and rich Vaishyas. Kshatriyas have the splendor of the Sun and the Moon. Everyone wants to be a Kshatriya today. All backward castes are using Kshatriya surnames today to show off....Everyone wants to be Kshatriya, nobody wants to be a Brahman. Kayasthas and Khatris are Kshaatrabrahmans (Kshatriyas doing Brahminical duties). They are one of the most socially advanced communities of India. Patel Kshatrias of Gujarat are one of the richest groups of India. South Indian Kshatriyas - Reddis, Naidus, Nairs, Vellalars wielded power from Brahmins long ago…Brahmins are subordinate in South also now! In Nepal also, Kshatriyas are far ahead of Brahmans. There is simply no comparison between these two groups. Most Rajputs in North are landlords and farmers with large sized lands. Some have medium sized lands. While some Brhamins are landlords, most are farmers with small and medium sized farms.

This is certainly not the case in Gujarat. As Singh et al (2019) rightly stress, caste has largely operated as a localized system of stratification, and caste categories and relations are embedded within the histories and politics of ethno-linguistic regions. In much of the Hindi Belt, the caste system more closely resembles the varna model, with four castes (i.e., Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras) and outcastes (i.e., ex-untouchables). In contrast, throughout much of the south, including Karnataka and Tamil Nadu, the Kshatriyas and Vaishyas in the varna system are missing and the overall percentage of the upper castes is much smaller. Dominant landowning castes consolidated considerable economic and political power in the period that followed, while Dalits continue to face considerable discrimination in the southern states.

In Gujarat, through historical coincides, assimilation, and conscious emulation, the Brahmin and Vaishya varnas have come to project very similar images. With Kshatriyas no longer dominant, Brahmins and Vaishyas constituted the pinnacle of the varna hierarchy in Hindu Gujarat. When Gujarat's Kshatriyas lost much of their power following the imposition of Mughal rule, their meat-eating and spirit-drinking were regarded by Brahmins and Vaishyas as additional causes for loss of prestige. "'Brahmin-waneea' [-vaishya] is now a synonymous expression for 'oojulee-wustee' [fair-people], or high-caste population". Parmar’s recent study in Gujarat traces how SCs change their surnames (which signal caste affiliation) in desperation to access better housing, employment and educational opportunities.(20) The study describes the systematic discrimination faced by SCs and Muslims in accessing rental housing or purchasing homes in neighbourhoods and caste-based cooperative housing communities dominated by Patels (a common surname of the Patidar caste) and by Brahmins (considered, like Patidars, a privileged caste in Gujarat).

‘Aspirational’

The bravery associated with the community finds a reflection in their rituals. “One of the more prominent of our rituals is to walk on fire,” said Sanjay Paswan, who made global headlines in 2003, when he was the Union junior minister for education, for walking barefoot over embers and brandishing swords.
Asked what the connotation of the ritual is, he said, “It simply means we are Dusadh — brave, not scared to play with fire.”

https://archive.md/yIwUO#selection-2415.0-2447.40

Nothing new here. Walking on fire has been practiced for many centuries all over the world. In Fiji, for instance, both Fijians and Hindu Indians (from southern India) practice firewalking, with the difference being that the Fijians walk on heated stones instead of hot embers.

[Tanais]

Say this to European R1a specialists. Without getting stuck into R1a we have a general problem with linguistic questions disturbung natural sciences like genetics. People should be more cautious of this dilemma, because linguists come from the back door into your mind and destroy your ability to think logically.

Good description.

[VikLevaPatel]

The occurrence of haplogroups M17-R1a and M124-R2 was highest in Sahariya tribe, followed by Bhil and Bharia.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0032546

https://archive.md/cG60A#selection-2035.62-2039.40

M17-R1a: https://archive.md/hknQA

The Sahariya Tribe, one of the most backward and sidelined tribes in the country... https://archive.md/wFzWD#selection-2113.0-2117.128

[VikLevaPatel]

India Acquired Language, Not Genes, From West.

The genetic heritage of the earliest settlers persists both in Indian tribal and caste populations

Coalescence times suggest early late Pleistocene settlement of southern Asia and suggest that there has not been total replacement of these settlers by later migrations. H, L, and R2 are the major Indian Y-chromosomal haplogroups that occur both in castes and in tribal populations and are rarely found outside the subcontinent. Haplogroup R1a, previously associated with the putative Indo-Aryan invasion, was found at its highest frequency in Punjab but also at a relatively high frequency (26%) in the Chenchu tribe. This finding, together with the higher R1a-associated short tandem repeat diversity in India and Iran compared with Europe and central Asia, suggests that southern and western Asia might be the source of this haplogroup.

https://archive.md/YekEv#selection-2489.487-2489.1227

Taken together, these results show that Indian tribal and caste populations derive largely from the same genetic heritage of Pleistocene southern and western Asians and have received limited gene flow from external regions since the Holocene. The phylogeography of the primal mtDNA and Y-chromosome founders suggests that these southern Asian Pleistocene coastal settlers from Africa would have provided the inocula for the subsequent differentiation of the distinctive eastern and western Eurasian gene pools.

https://archive.md/YekEv#selection-2489.1392-2489.1902

[VikLevaPatel]

High frequency of Y-haplogroup R1a1* in tribal populations and ancestral Y-haplogroup R1a* in the Indian subcontinent

The co-presence of this haplogroup in many of the tribal populations of India, its existence in high frequency in Saharia and Chenchu tribes, the high frequency of R1a* in Kashmiri Pandits (KPs—Brahmins) as well as Saharia (tribe) and associated phylogenetic ages supported the autochthonous origin and tribal links of Indian Brahmins.

The percentage distribution of haplogroups in Brahmins showed a total of six most frequent (percentage >5%) haplogroups: R1a1* (40.63%), J2 (12.5%), R2 (8.59%), L (7.81%), H1 (6.25%) and R1* (5.47%), contributing to 81.25% of the total distribution in Brahmins. Tribals and scheduled castes (n=254) also showed six haplogroups: H1 (31.10%), R1a1* (20.47%), J2 (10.24%), L (7.87%), H* (7.87%) and O (6.69%), contributing in total to 84.25%. Interestingly, four of the haplogroups were overlapping in percentage (>5%) distribution with Brahmins.

Sharma, Swarkar, et al. "The Indian origin of paternal haplogroup R1a1* substantiates the autochthonous origin of Brahmins and the caste system." Journal of human genetics 54.1 (2009): 47-55.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post7358424

https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover

[VikLevaPatel]

Y haplogroup K (not to be confused with mtDNA haplogroup K discussed in conjunction with mtDNA haplogroup U) was the parent of haplogroup P which is the parent of both haplogroups Q and R.

It has always been believed that haplogroup R made its way into Europe before the arrival of Neolithic farmers about 10,000 years ago. However, that conclusion has been called into question, also by the use of Ancient DNA results. In essence, we can’t label MA-1 as paternally European because of Y haplogroup R which now looks to have had an Asian genesis and was not known to have been in Europe 24,000 years ago, only arriving about 5,000 years ago. We can’t label haplogroup R as Native American, because it has never been found in a pre-Columbian New World burial. We can determine that MA-1 did have ancestors who eventually became European due to autosomal analysis, but we don’t know that those people lived in what is now Europe 24,000 years ago. So the migration might have been into Europe, not out of Europe.

https://dna-explained.com/2013/11/22...-the-americas/

Haplogroup R is one of the largest haplogroups in India and Pakistan. This is also the largest haplogroup in the dataset used in this study. It originated in north Asia about 27,000 years ago (ISOGG, 2016). One branch is believed to have originated in the Kurgan culture, known to be the first speakers of the Indo-European languages and responsible for the domestication of the horse (Smolenyak and Turner, 2004). From somewhere in central Asia, some descendants of the man carrying the M207 mutation on the Y chromosome headed south to arrive in India about 10,000 years ago (Wells, 2007).

[VikLevaPatel]

Peter Underhill, scientist at the Department of Genetics at the Stanford University School of Medicine, is one of those at the centre of the action. Three years ago, a team of 32 scientists he led published a massive study mapping the distribution and linkages of R1a. It used a panel of 16,244 male subjects from 126 populations across Eurasia. Dr. Underhill’s research found that R1a had two sub-haplogroups, one found primarily in Europe and the other confined to Central and South Asia.

Ninety-six per cent of the R1a samples in Europe belonged to sub-haplogroup Z282, while 98.4% of the Central and South Asian R1a lineages belonged to sub-haplogroup Z93. The two groups diverged from each other only about 5,800 years ago.

Dr. Underhill’s research showed that within the Z93 that is predominant in India, there is a further splintering into multiple branches.

The paper found this “star-like branching” indicative of rapid growth and dispersal. So if you want to know the approximate period when Indo-European language speakers came and rapidly spread across India, you need to discover the date when Z93 splintered into its own various subgroups or lineages. We will come back to this later.

So in a nutshell: R1a is distributed all over Europe, Central Asia and South Asia; its sub-group Z282 is distributed only in Europe while another subgroup Z93 is distributed only in parts of Central Asia and South Asia; and three major subgroups of Z93 are distributed only in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and the Himalayas.

This clear picture of the distribution of R1a has finally put paid to an earlier hypothesis that this haplogroup perhaps originated in India and then spread outwards. This hypothesis was based on the erroneous assumption that R1a lineages in India had huge diversity compared to other regions, which could be indicative of its origin here. As Prof. Richards puts it, “the idea that R1a is very diverse in India, which was largely based on fuzzy microsatellite data, has been laid to rest” thanks to the arrival of large numbers of genomic Y-chromosome data.

https://archive.md/nv7SQ#selection-1371.491-1375.325