Russia preparing to attack Ukraine by late January

[ixulescu]

Why is the West so obsessed with maintaining Ukraine's "territorial integrity" anyway? Discuss.

Are you serious? Borders of a sovereign state don't matter anymore? Are we going back to world wars?

[JosephK]

Are you serious? Borders of a sovereign state don't matter anymore? Are we going back world wars?

Well, sometimes they don't and that's why wars happen. Obviously the West has not been concerned with Serbia's territorial integrity.

[ixulescu]

Well, sometimes they don't and that's why wars happen. Obviously the West has not been concerned with Serbia's territorial integrity.

Former Yugoslavia conflicts were a series of civil wars.

Current situation in Ukraine is completely different. Ukraine is incessantly attacked by a neighboring state - a mafia state ruled by a midget armed with a nuclear briefcase.

[Dušan]

Former Yugoslavia conflicts were a series of civil wars.

This is not in contradiction with the fact that the West did not respect the territorial integrity of Serbia, but supported Albanian separatists.

[VikLevaPatel]

Russians have no one to blame but themselves for the situation they are at this point.

The U.S. Government is saying the same thing.

Not Sure If Fact or Fiction

62j57p.jpg

U.S. Department of State:

Fact vs. Fiction: Russian Disinformation on Ukraine

FACT SHEET

OFFICE OF THE SPOKESPERSON

JANUARY 20, 2022

https://archive.is/dIzpp

https://www.state.gov/fact-vs-fictio...on-on-ukraine/

FICTION: Russia’s deployment of combat forces is a mere repositioning of troops on its own territory.[iii]

FACT: Deploying more than 100,000 Russian troops, including battle-hardened combat forces and offensive weaponry with no plausible innocuous explanation, to the borders of a country that Russia has previously invaded and still occupies in places is no mere troop rotation. It is a clear, renewed Russian threat to Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. The buildup is paired with active disinformation measures designed to undermine confidence in the Ukrainian government and create a pretext for further Russian incursion.

https://archive.is/dIzpp#selection-2939.0-2949.262

FICTION: Ukraine and Ukrainian government officials are the aggressor in the Russia-Ukraine relationship.[i]

FACT: False statements from the Putin regime blame the victim, Ukraine, for Russia’s aggression. Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014, occupies Crimea, controls armed forces in the Donbas, and has now amassed more than 100,000 troops on the border with Ukraine while President Putin threatens “retaliatory military-technical” measures if his demands are not met.

FICTION: The West is pushing Ukraine toward a conflict.[ii]

FACT: Moscow instigated the current crisis by placing more than 100,000 troops on the border of Ukraine, with no similar military activity on the Ukrainian side of the border. Russian military and intelligence entities are targeting Ukraine with disinformation attempting to paint Ukraine and Ukrainian government officials as the aggressor in the Russia-Ukraine relationship. The Russian government is trying to trick the world into believing Ukraine’s behavior could provoke a global conflict and to convince Russian citizens of the need for Russian military action in Ukraine. Russia blames others for its own aggression, but it is Moscow’s responsibility to end this crisis peacefully through de-escalation and diplomacy. Moscow invaded Ukraine in 2014, occupies Crimea, and continues to fuel conflict in eastern Ukraine. This follows a pattern of Russian behavior of undermining the sovereignty and territorial integrity of countries in the region – invading and occupying parts of Georgia in 2008, and failing to honor its 1999 commitment to withdraw its troops and munitions from Moldova, where they remain without the government’s consent.

https://archive.is/dIzpp#selection-2911.0-2935.975

[ixulescu]

This is not in contradiction with the fact that the West did not respect the territorial integrity of Serbia, but supported Albanian separatists.

Dušan, the current situation is nothing like the 90s wars.

If we let Russia disintegrate Ukraine it means that a new world order starts now, where the strongest states can decide on a whim what states to occupy - a new age of empires. None of this will end well.

[JosephK]

Former Yugoslavia conflicts were a series of civil wars.

Current situation in Ukraine is completely different. Ukraine is incessantly attacked by a neighboring state - a mafia state ruled by a midget armed with a nuclear briefcase.

Since the collapse of the USSR, Russia has occasionally engaged in implicit and even explicit military support of Russian enclaves that, following the partitioning that occurred after said collapse, ended up outside of Russia's borders.

[ixulescu]

Since the collapse of the USSR, Russia has occasionally engaged in implicit and even explicit military support of Russian enclaves that, following the partitioning that occurred after said collapse, ended up outside of Russia's borders.

Guess what? colonists can end up outside the empire borders.

They should get language rights, but no other special treatment. Russia has no right to occupy those territories.

[Dušan]

Dušan, the current situation is nothing like the 90s wars.

If we let Russia disintegrate Ukraine it means that a new world order starts now, where the strongest states can decide at their whim what states to occupy - a new age of empires. None of this will end well.

And now the strongest state (US) not decide where will be new conflicts?

I dont want to interefere into Russian-Ukrainian confict.

This world order was very unfair toward my people (supporting Albanian separatists against Serbia, supporting Bosnian Muslims against Bosnian Serbs in Bosnia).
Maybe some new order without US hegemony will be more fair.

[JosephK]

Guess what? colonists can end up outside the empire borders.

They should get language rights, but no other special treatment. Russia has no right to occupy those territories.

So you'd rather the US just run everything, and everyone?