Why do Egyptians have much less Steppe and Anatolian than most of their neighbors?

[Adamm]

This just proved that Egyptians didn't had major genetic reconstructions within all these thousands of years, ancient Egyptians (pre-Ptolemaic) also didn't carry any Steppe ancestry (so Egyptians retained a genetic continuity since at least the Late bronze age). The only thing that changed in genetic make-up of Egyptians is a slight upgrade in Sub Saharan admixture (Dinka-related). So why didn't Egyptians carry EEF and or Steppe, well its probably because they had the abilities to defend themselves from genocide or ethnic cleansing, either trough becoming a vessel state (i.e. Ptolemaic era when the Egyptians became vessels to the Greek) or after that during the Roman era and even after that during the Arab era.

[Zanzibar]

This just proved that Egyptians didn't had major genetic reconstructions within all these thousands of years, ancient Egyptians (pre-Ptolemaic) also didn't carry any Steppe ancestry (so Egyptians retained a genetic continuity since at least the Late bronze age). The only thing that changed in genetic make-up of Egyptians is a slight upgrade in Sub Saharan admixture (Dinka-related). So why didn't Egyptians carry EEF and or Steppe, well its probably because they had the abilities to defend themselves from genocide or ethnic cleansing, either trough becoming a vessel state (i.e. Ptolemaic era when the Egyptians became vessels to the Greek) or after that during the Roman era and even after that during the Arab era.

Actually Egyptians do seem to score very minor Steppe like 2-4% and they do score some EEF but not as much as Maghrebis depending on certain G25 models that I have seen. But yes I do agreed and get your point. Appreciated your answer.

For example here is another model:

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 1.8130% / 0.01813018
33.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
26.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
18.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
8.0 Dinka
6.8 ANA_(simulated)
3.8 Yoruba
2.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra

Target: Libyan
Distance: 1.8997% / 0.01899707
30.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
21.0 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
17.6 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
11.2 ANA_(simulated)
9.0 Yoruba
6.8 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
3.8 Dinka

Target: Tunisian
Distance: 2.1670% / 0.02166969
30.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
24.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
13.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
13.0 ANA_(simulated)
9.2 Yoruba
7.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
1.8 Dinka
0.4 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

Target: Algerian
Distance: 2.2752% / 0.02275247
34.6 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
21.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
13.2 ANA_(simulated)
11.8 Yoruba
9.2 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
8.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
1.6 Dinka
0.4 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

Target: Moroccan_North
Distance: 2.0751% / 0.02075059
41.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
18.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
15.0 ANA_(simulated)
9.0 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
7.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
6.4 Yoruba
2.4 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche
Distance: 2.1996% / 0.02199552
40.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
21.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
17.0 ANA_(simulated)
8.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
5.2 Yoruba
4.4 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
1.8 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
1.2 Dinka
0.2 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG

Target: Mozabite
Distance: 2.6284% / 0.02628392
38.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
20.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
16.2 ANA_(simulated)
10.2 Yoruba
6.2 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
6.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
1.2 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
0.8 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

Target: Saharawi
Distance: 2.6465% / 0.02646521
31.0 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
27.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
19.0 ANA_(simulated)
11.2 Yoruba
7.6 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
2.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
0.8 Dinka
0.4 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

Target: Berber_MAR_TIZ
Distance: 2.5081% / 0.02508085
38.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
21.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
19.8 ANA_(simulated)
10.6 Yoruba
4.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
2.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
1.4 Dinka
0.8 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

So it seems Egyptians still have some Steppe and Anatolian but just in lesser amounts than Maghrebis.

Coordinates used for this model:

Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,0.1255849,0.089028,0.0426986,0.1153479,-0.0287232,0.0450564,0.0036033,-0.0025642,-0.0559032,-0.0728943,0.0018222,3.32e-05,-0.0026924,-0.0233041,0.0366141,0.0157633,-0.0012316,-0.0017879,-0.0038408,0.0137704,-0.0031749,0.0007557,0.0110649,0.0186102,-0.004537
ANA_(simulated),-0.571392,-0.027419,0.013576,0.009855,0.040623,-0.015523,-0.162235,0.067998,0.243042,0.002005,-0.000784,-0.041239,0.081441,-0.148149,0.15178,-0.082206,0.072689,-0.168241,-0.366474,0.042,-0.114965,-0.336542,0.211801,-0.030807,0.023369
Proto-Natufian_(simulated),0.154549,0.185486,-0.045424,-0.181721,0.03489,-0.100323,0.001981,-0.039605,0.09774,0.004875,0.044136,-0.019354,0.081207,0.037592,-0.017759,0.025542,-0.036934,0.037069,0.054803,0.04523,0.025848,0.0795 25,-0.051595,0.007188,0.001536
Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0430252,0.0664158,-0.1550722,0.0047158,-0.122669,0.0235384,0.017109,-0.0011998,-0.082546,-0.0544158,-0.0028258,-0.0016186,0.0044896,-0.0062756,0.0316498,0.0561384,-0.0054242,0.0068664,0.0136508,-0.0334162,0.00856,-0.028836,-0.0110678,-0.039331,0.0222254
Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG,0.091058,0.102568,-0.083344,-0.00323,-0.08617,0.020638,0.024911,-0.001846,-0.128236,-0.074717,-0.006333,0.023979,-0.054856,0.004404,0.026601,-0.03275,0.02386,-0.013429,-0.022249,0.034767,0.033815,-0.007048,0.006532,-0.025787,-0.002036
Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N,0.1175998,0.180118,0.0035312,-0.101158,0.0510443,-0.0483875,-0.0043582,-0.0069334,0.0362287,0.0807473,0.0079718,0.0118803,-0.0234545,0.0004691,-0.0419807,-0.0101913,0.0233091,0.0019866,0.0136954,-0.0097489,-0.0142249,0.0057723,-0.0041232,-0.0031658,-0.0043437
ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso,0.1225497,0.1120467,0.2008793,0.2048907,0.1728527,0.0618207,0.0160593,0.0412293,0.108602,0.0271533,-0.0193243,-0.0143373,0.0162043,-0.0086703,0.0708007,0.069035,0.0002173,0.0120353,-0.0099303,0.0637807,0.118,0.0113347,-0.0608843,-0.1971763,0.021994
ETH_4500BP,-0.511066,0.043668,0.000754,0.000969,-0.00277,-0.011435,0.050997,-0.045229,0.089172,-0.087838,-0.012991,-0.002997,-0.031219,0.000688,0.02158,-0.029965,0.027772,0.039273,0.00176,-0.009004,0.000374,0.006183,-0.003451,-0.00241,-0.000838
Dinka,-0.577083,0.0507765,-0.0003773,-0.0075098,-0.0053855,-0.0016735,-0.0176848,0.0204222,0.081145,-0.0969495,-0.02107,0.022742,-0.0383172,-0.0011698,0.0101452,-0.021347,0.0186125,-0.0094382,0.0241968,-0.0241678,0.002402,0.003308,0.001479,0.0009038,0.0096995
Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0.0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561,0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
IRN_Seh_Gabi_C,0.0799038,0.1186138,-0.1042362,-0.054264,-0.067151,-0.0124944,0.005499,-0.0086302,-0.0478176,-0.0168748,0.0024684,0.0005096,-0.001427,-0.0011558,0.0034204,0.0170244,-0.0028684,0.0046622,0.0082206,-0.014682,0.0070626,-0.005787,-0.0015282,-0.0162432,0.0072566

[Östsvensk]

Maybe this is the answer?

Spoiler!

https://twitter.com/cirublessed/stat...19464765218821

Lol, I watched a video just the other day which somehow popped up in my feed where a black guy makes this kind of argument. What a coincidence, haha.



He's basically saying that Turks (along with Arabs and Italians) over the centuries made Berbers whiter.

[Adamm]

Lol, I watched a video just the other day which somehow popped up in my feed where a black guy makes this kind of argument. What a coincidence, haha.



He's basically saying that Turks (along with Arabs and Italians) over the centuries made Berbers whiter.

I'm not gonna waste 24 minutes on this kinda crap, only someone with 0 genetic insight would make such a claim.

[E1b1b]

Lol, I watched a video just the other day which somehow popped up in my feed where a black guy makes this kind of argument. What a coincidence, haha.



He's basically saying that Turks (along with Arabs and Italians) over the centuries made Berbers whiter.

Dude the real secret no black man knows is that his Y-DNA came from Half Eurasian wogs killing off their Y DNA A and B native lineages and replacing them with Y-DNA E lineages.

[Östsvensk]

I'm not gonna waste 24 minutes on this kinda crap, only someone with 0 genetic insight would make such a claim.

You don't really have to watch it, it can be pretty much summarized in what I said. He's an Afrocentrist, which he states himself. He makes his main argument at the 6-8 minute mark. His arguments are mainly linguistic, that Berbers speak a "black" language and this means they were black people who became gradually whitened, then he references professor Christopher Ehret. In the video he also says that ancient Egyptians were black at first and by the time of Cleopatra, they (or at least she) had started to look like the pale-skinned woman in the video.

[Flashball]

Tepecik is 50% Anatolian hunter gatherer and 50% irano-levantin neolithic

[Borealis]

It's kind of a mystery why they don't have as much ANF as Levantines who are right next door but ancient Egyptians were very high Natufian much like modern Arabs. Perhaps the Sinai peninsula was enough of a barrier that ANF didn't penetrate into Egypt as much.

As for steppe, I think it's pretty clear that the reconquista as well as the Barbary slave trade DID have an effect on the people. You might explain higher ANF through Iberia_neolithic but higher steppe in Maghrebis vs Egyptians can only be explained one way.

Also, Arabian ancestry is not responsible for Egyptians being ANF depressed relative to their neighbors. Ancient Egyptians were more Levant shifted than modern Muslim Egyptians are so if anything it may even be the opposite.

Target: EGY_Late_Period
Distance: 2.9131% / 0.02913112
76.4 Levant_PPNC
10.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.2 GEO_CHG
2.0 Dinka
2.0 MAR_Taforalt
1.0 RUS_Tyumen_HG

Target: Levant_Beirut_IAIII_Egyptian
Distance: 3.5684% / 0.03568370
72.2 Levant_PPNC
11.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.0 GEO_CHG
3.4 Dinka
1.4 RUS_Karelia_HG
1.2 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Egyptian_Copt
Distance: 2.5711% / 0.02571066
70.4 Levant_PPNC
14.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.4 Dinka
6.2 GEO_CHG
2.6 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 2.4017% / 0.02401747
58.4 Levant_PPNC
15.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.8 Dinka
5.6 GEO_CHG
3.6 TUR_Barcin_N
2.6 MAR_Taforalt
2.4 RUS_Karelia_HG

[Leto]

It's kind of a mystery why they don't have as much ANF as Levantines who are right next door but ancient Egyptians were very high Natufian much like modern Arabs. Perhaps the Sinai peninsula was enough of a barrier that ANF didn't penetrate into Egypt as much.

As for steppe, I think it's pretty clear that the reconquista as well as the Barbary slave trade DID have an effect on the people. You might explain higher ANF through Iberia_neolithic but higher steppe in Maghrebis vs Egyptians can only be explained one way.

Also, Arabian ancestry is not responsible for Egyptians being ANF depressed relative to their neighbors. Ancient Egyptians were more Levant shifted than modern Muslim Egyptians are so if anything it may even be the opposite.

Target: EGY_Late_Period
Distance: 2.9131% / 0.02913112
76.4 Levant_PPNC
10.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.2 GEO_CHG
2.0 Dinka
2.0 MAR_Taforalt
1.0 RUS_Tyumen_HG

Target: Levant_Beirut_IAIII_Egyptian
Distance: 3.5684% / 0.03568370
72.2 Levant_PPNC
11.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.0 GEO_CHG
3.4 Dinka
1.4 RUS_Karelia_HG
1.2 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Egyptian_Copt
Distance: 2.5711% / 0.02571066
70.4 Levant_PPNC
14.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.4 Dinka
6.2 GEO_CHG
2.6 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 2.4017% / 0.02401747
58.4 Levant_PPNC
15.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.8 Dinka
5.6 GEO_CHG
3.6 TUR_Barcin_N
2.6 MAR_Taforalt
2.4 RUS_Karelia_HG

It confirms that the Copts are the true Egyptians. I would like to know the precise percentage of Copts living in Egypt. Too bad there are no reliable statistics.
Also, what are their main haplogroups?

[Borealis]

It confirms that the Copts are the true Egyptians. I would like to know the precise percentage of Copts living in Egypt. Too bad there are no reliable statistics.
Also, what are their main haplogroups?

According to Y-DNA analysis by Hassan et al. (2008), around 45% of Copts in Sudan carry the haplogroup J. The remainder mainly belong to the E1b1b clade (21%). Both paternal lineages are common among other local Afroasiatic-speaking populations (Beja, Ethiopians, Sudanese Arabs), as well as many Nubians.[126] E1b1b/E3b reaches its highest frequencies among North Africans, Levantine Middle Easterners, and Ethiopid East Africans.[127] The next most common haplogroups borne by Copts are the European-linked R1b clade (15%), as well as the archaic African B lineage (15%).[126]

“Maternally, Hassan (2009) found that Copts in Sudan exclusively carry various descendants of the macrohaplogroup N. This mtDNA clade is likewise closely associated with local Afroasiatic-speaking populations, including Berbers and Ethiopid peoples. Of the N derivatives borne by Copts, U6 is most frequent (28%), followed by the haplogroup T (17%).[128]“

The vast majority of Christians in Egypt are Copts and vice versa. They are generally accepted to be about 10% of the population although I sometimes wonder if that’s an overestimate. So about 10% of Egypt is Coptic give or take a few percentage points.

Yea, they’re definitely the purest heirs of ancient Egypt. Unfortunately no geneticist is going to admit that because of the “black Egypt” controversy and not-wanting-to-step-on-toes PC bullshit. So it’s basically up to us to connect the dots for regular people since the scientists refuse to do so themselves. It’s really sad.