Bulgarians and Hungarians closest genetically - Bulgarian academics claim

[Kaspias]

It seems you didn't understand what i said. I have talked about conquerors, not proto-magyars. Secondly who are proto-magyars according to you? The elite or the commoners? What time period and what place? I can help you again: the birth place and genetic of proto-magyars are totally unknown. The original home of conquerors was not the Ural for sure, because their genetic origin was more eastern connected to Altay and East Asia:

See:

Not exactly same because as i know old bulgars were more iranic shifted, nomad magyars were more germanic shifted, but im sure they spoked same oghur-turkic language too.

Wrong, old magyars had very significant germanic genetic before the entering of Carpathian Basin:

Blondie, you do not really need to pretend like you are an expert on these, there is no reason to twist words more and more.

The original home of the Uralic speakers who inherited their language to the modern Hungarian nation is the Urals, and previously (during IA) has a deeper origin to the Sargat culture. However, the results from recent two Hungarian articles and specifically the Arpad's lineage suggest a deeper Central Asian migration, possibly explain the presence of Bashkirs as well, and suggest an intermediate Bashkir-Chuvash-like confederation around the Western Siberia and Urals. In addition to that, 4 clans that segregated from the Khazars, have got Turkic origin and possibly Pecheneg, join the formerly present 7 clans of the Magyars. During the migration, they encounter Germanic's as they moved towards Crimea and pushed them to the West, also, and "Conqueror" era samples from Hungary suggest that they also mixed with them, either in Carpathia or shortly before entering Carpathia. Therefore, the conqueror samples presented in the article do not suggest that these are actual profiles of "Nomad/Old/Proto Magyars", but represent a homogenizing period. Now evaluating the situation, they pushed Germanic's to the West at the first stage and then mixed with them. That's almost the same case as Turks entering Anatolia and pushing Greek back to the West, but then mixed with them as a mass. Now you are claiming that those Turks who are mixed with Greeks are "Old Turks" whilst I'm pointing out no, they are not, they represent an already mixed population. Moreover, the difference between the elite and commoners is not huge as we had thought before, and samples suggest a transition of elites to the commoners and commoners to the elite. Elites still show a certain shift to the Asian populations, but a similar shift with a more limited amount is also present in commoners. This process supposedly resulted in a total equation in the following 2-3 generations.

You are aware of the situation very well but do not want to accept the fact that because you would like to see Germanic's contributing to nomads to make yourself more proud, but that's not healthy behavior, take it as a suggestion from a friend.

[Blondie]

Blondie, you do not really need to pretend like you are an expert on these, there is no reason to twist words more and more.

Sorry but im more expert than your from Bulgaria, who can't read the original hungarian academic sources in the hungarian language, because you don't speak hungarian.
The perfect example of your ignorance is when you think the elite and commoners were same, but in the reality they were a very different population with different origin. The elite was turkic not uralic, i doubt you read my posted source from the hungarian academy otherwise you would know it:

We did not find Finno-Ugric genetic connection, so our data do not support the FinnoUgric origin of the conquerors

Only Dr. István Raskó geneticist has found uralic genes but among the commoners.

Elites still show a certain shift to the Asian populations, but a similar shift with a more limited amount is also present in commoners.

Wrong again, the elite was clearly and asiatic population, unlike commoners where the asian genetic was completely insignificant:



I'm sure you didn't read the original Gesta Hungarorum in the hungarian language, otherwise you would know that the modern hungarian language was already here in the Carpathian Basin before the turkic speaker Árpáds and the conquerors have arrived. The elite was described as turkic speaker in the greek and arabic sources, they didn't speak the hungarian language, it was came from commoners not the elite.
You also didn't ansered who are proto-magyars in your opinion, neither when i said i have talked about conquerors not proto-magyars.

You are aware of the situation very well but do not want to accept the fact that because you would like to see Germanic's contributing to nomads to make yourself more proud, but that's not healthy behavior, take it as a suggestion from a friend.

I'm not your friend and this absurd accusation makes no sense, so Dunai is also wanted to force germanics to make him proud? Proud of what? I posted a genetic source from the academy what proves my claims that conquerors were significantly germanic. This is fact, like it or not. And your all information is from your ass and wikipedia.
If you want to debate about the hungarian prehistory, firstly you should learn hungarian, otherwise you will not know the hungarian academic sources in the original language and you will not understand the scientific debates between hungarian profs.

[Kaspias]

Sorry but im more expert than your from Bulgaria, who can't read the original hungarian academic sources in the hungarian language, because you don't speak hungarian.
The perfect example of your ignorance is when you think the elite and commoners were same, but in the reality they were a very different population with different origin. The elite was turkic not uralic, i doubt you read my posted source from the hungarian academy otherwise you would know it:



Only Dr. István Raskó geneticist has found uralic genes but among the commoners.



Wrong again, the elite was clearly and asiatic population, unlike commoners where the asian genetic was completely insignificant:


I'm sure you didn't read the original Gesta Hungarorum in the hungarian language, otherwise you would know that the modern hungarian language was already here in the Carpathian Basin before the turkic speaker Árpáds and the conquerors have arrived. The elite was described as turkic speaker in the greek and arabic sources, they didn't speak the hungarian language, it was came from commoners not the elite.
You also didn't ansered who are proto-magyars in your opinion, neither when i said i have talked about conquerors not proto-magyars.



I'm not your friend and this absurd accusation makes no sense, so Dunai is also wanted to force germanics to make him proud? Proud of what? I posted a genetic source from the academy what proves my claims that conquerors were significantly germanic. This is fact, like it or not. And your all information is from your ass and wikipedia.
If you want to debate about the hungarian prehistory, firstly you should learn hungarian, otherwise you will not know the hungarian academic sources in the original language and you will not understand the scientific debates between hungarian profs.

Have you noticed that I haven't attacked you in any means but your last few posts were starting with personal attacks on me as well as copied statements from somewhere else, being aggressive won't make you right, better relax.

Dunai has nothing to do with the topic, he was simply wrong while evaluating their mt-DNA as Germanic, and completely ignored the fact that these samples were already from a mixed population. You do the same mistake, too.

Learning Hungarian is not very beneficial, I mean it has some benefits, but not necessarily considering all recent articles related to their ethnogenesis were English. If it is the language which is the problem I'm pretty sure that a combination of English, Turkish, Greek, Bulgarian, and German which I can speak of have got more articles related to the Magyars than the Hungarian language itself. I could supply here some references but I do not like to turn this into a pissing contest, and believing even if they indeed change your thoughts on that certain subject you won't accept it publicly, so see no reason to continue to the argument. But what I pointed out since the beginning remains a solid fact. You may actually check my previous threads, there were some threads related to the Arpad article and also Western Huns if you are interested which I was discussing probabilities by using genetic data and programs. These and some two dozen more article reads are the sources of my knowledge.

I also should state why do you claim that all my thoughts are based on Wikipedia or my ass, like, how can you know that? I do not know what is written in Wikipedia related to the subject but if they wrote my statements then they were right. I'm supplying you the fact with very basic English, answering all of your questions in my previous posts, but now you say I didn't answer? I don't get what you tried to say in the first sentence also, I'm from Greece, not Bulgaria, but anyway.

[Blondie]

Have you noticed that I haven't attacked you in any means but your last few posts were starting with personal attacks on me as well as copied statements from somewhere else, being aggressive won't make you right, better relax.

You did it, when you have accused me that i described them germanic just because my identity, what is a laughable bullshit. It's just uncomfortable for you that the modern genetic results disproved your claims.

Dunai has nothing to do with the topic, he was simply wrong while evaluating their mt-DNA as Germanic, and completely ignored the fact that these samples were already from a mixed population. You do the same mistake, too.

Source your ass again. Sorry but i trust in the academy and it's professors more than in you from TA. And of course im stupid, Dunai is stupid and everyone is stupid compared to you.

Learning Hungarian is not very beneficial, I mean it has some benefits, but not necessarily considering all recent articles related to their ethnogenesis were English. If it is the language which is the problem I'm pretty sure that a combination of English, Turkish, Greek, Bulgarian, and German which I can speak of have got more articles related to the Magyars than the Hungarian language itself.

Yes and these articles came from non hungarians, who knows nothing about the hungarian scientific life and researchs. I have seen tons of bullshit about hungarians what is wrote by foreigners.

I could supply here some references but I do not like to turn this into a pissing contest, and believing even if they indeed change your thoughts on that certain subject you won't accept it publicly, so see no reason to continue to the argument.

This arrogance is cute... you would never think that maybe you are wrong... nooo you are the walking "i know everything better" encyclopedia.

But what I pointed out since the beginning remains a solid fact. You may actually check my previous threads, there were some threads related to the Arpad article and also Western Huns if you are interested which I was discussing probabilities by using genetic data and programs. These and some two dozen more article reads are the sources of my knowledge.

Its not a solid fact, but it was the old 20 years old academic point of view in Hungary, im not surprised that you know only that, and you know nothing about the modern researchs, and debates. I can post tons of video where hungarian professors of the Academy are talking about the new results and ideas, but doesnt matter because you wont understand it.

I also should state why do you claim that all my thoughts are based on Wikipedia or my ass, like, how can you know that?

Because you said this 20 years old obsoleted academic point of view like a parrot.

[Dunai]

Have you noticed that I haven't attacked you in any means but your last few posts were starting with personal attacks on me as well as copied statements from somewhere else, being aggressive won't make you right, better relax.

Dunai has nothing to do with the topic, he was simply wrong while evaluating their mt-DNA as Germanic, and completely ignored the fact that these samples were already from a mixed population. You do the same mistake, too.

Learning Hungarian is not very beneficial, I mean it has some benefits, but not necessarily considering all recent articles related to their ethnogenesis were English. If it is the language which is the problem I'm pretty sure that a combination of English, Turkish, Greek, Bulgarian, and German which I can speak of have got more articles related to the Magyars than the Hungarian language itself. I could supply here some references but I do not like to turn this into a pissing contest, and believing even if they indeed change your thoughts on that certain subject you won't accept it publicly, so see no reason to continue to the argument. But what I pointed out since the beginning remains a solid fact. You may actually check my previous threads, there were some threads related to the Arpad article and also Western Huns if you are interested which I was discussing probabilities by using genetic data and programs. These and some two dozen more article reads are the sources of my knowledge.

I also should state why do you claim that all my thoughts are based on Wikipedia or my ass, like, how can you know that? I do not know what is written in Wikipedia related to the subject but if they wrote my statements then they were right. I'm supplying you the fact with very basic English, answering all of your questions in my previous posts, but now you say I didn't answer? I don't get what you tried to say in the first sentence also, I'm from Greece, not Bulgaria, but anyway.

I haven't stated that it's based on my very own personal ideas that the whole mtDNA of Hungarian Conquerors was Germanic, but I was quoting the scientists themselves who said there was a significant (emphasis on significant, not whole) Scandinavian Germanic genetic heritage among them, simple as that. I am no scientist thus I like to quote actual scientists since they know more on this subject than me. They also stated that the other significant mtDNA component of Hungarian Conquerors is East Asian in origin, but you only seem to have issue to accept the first part of their findings. Since you believe that Hungarian Conqueors can't possibly have carried Ancient Germanic DNA, even if the population from Ancient North Europe have migrated towards the steppe in ancient history. This is why it's not that hard to see how Hungarian Conquerors did inherit plenty of ancient Germanic components before migrating to Central Europe.

[Kaspias]

You did it, when you have accused me that i described them germanic just because my identity, what is a laughable bullshit. It's just uncomfortable for you that the modern genetic results disproved your claims.

Modern genetic results disproved many of previous claims of historians; and what I'm suggesting is exactly this, modern genetic results suggests what I pointed out, I'm not the source of origin so it also can't be my ass, I'm evaluating the results and transferring to you and that's it. Some other Hungarian academicians that I'm aware of are incapable of catching up with what genetics shows us -not something special to the Hungarian academicians, applies to all scientific world which has to carry out the certain methodology and usually not interested in with the subject as we, the DNA community- and so do you, apparently, because your evaluation was wrong on that matter. "Old Magyars" can't be Germanic shifted without mixing on the way or in the arriving place. And the samples show that they are indeed, but the samples are from Europe.

Source your ass again. Sorry but i trust in the academy and it's professors more than in you from TA. And of course im stupid, Dunai is stupid and everyone is stupid compared to you.

No, I didn't use the word "stupid" and have no reason to use it.

Yes and these articles came from non hungarians, who knows nothing about the hungarian scientific life and researchs. I have seen tons of bullshit about hungarians what is wrote by foreigners.

I'm also sure that I know more about Hungarian history than an average Hungarian, despite being completely foreign. That's about the working areas of the researchers rather than where they are from. World's one of the most important Balkanologist is a full German and works on Romanians/Aromanians.

This arrogance is cute... you would never think that maybe you are wrong... nooo you are the walking "i know everything better" encyclopedia.

No. I'm just following the recent articles. I may easily be wrong with the following one.

Its not a solid fact, but it was the old 20 years old academic point of view in Hungary, im not surprised that you know only that, and you know nothing about the modern researchs, and debates. I can post tons of video where hungarian professors of the Academy are talking about the new results and ideas, but doesnt matter because you wont understand it.

Because you said this 20 years old obsoleted academic point of view like a parrot.

Many of these academicians defend it so that Hungarians can have more "Old Magyar" heritage. The Bulgarian example lies on the first page. If I was going to listen to Turkish academicians I was posting here ultimate Turkic propaganda for anything related to Hungary.

The thing which makes the difference here is that research was not obsolete, but only pointed out the essence of the reality with shortcomings. The recent articles in the last few years actually proved it. Magyars were highly mixed with Germanic's and then Slavs. Ostrogoths were pushed by Magyars to the West and Magyars were pushed by the Pechenegs then these all melted into one. The actual conqueror organization consisted of 7 clans includes mixed Ugric - Onoghur populations and when they were in passing by Khazaria, 4 other Turkic clans, (supposedly Pecheneg) is joined them. The elite, on the other hand, seems to be Turkic, and Turkic should have been spoken so that we can explain these unknown origin Turkic words in modern Hungary, but later the Ugric language is standardized through the tribes, because of political reasons as much as it understood.

I haven't stated that it's based on my very own personal ideas that the whole mtDNA of Hungarian Conquerors was Germanic, but I was quoting the scientists themselves who said there was a significant (emphasis on significant, not whole) Scandinavian Germanic genetic heritage among them, simple as that. I am no scientist thus I like to quote actual scientists since they know more on this subject than me.

Sure, there was autosomally, but they can't spot this on in terms of mt-DNA. But stop, if they are not going to write a baseless conclusion that will make clueless readers excited, who is going to read the article that they are selling for money? That's my experience in academia.

They also stated that the other significant mtDNA component of Hungarian Conquerors is East Asian in origin, but you only seem to have issue to accept the first part of their findings. Since you believe that Hungarian Conqueors can't possibly have carried Ancient Germanic DNA, even if the population from Ancient North Europe have migrated towards the steppe in ancient history. This is why it's not that hard to see how Hungarian Conquerors did inherit plenty of ancient Germanic components before migrating to Central Europe.

They have got Sintashta_MLBA-like Steppe if that applies. In other words, what I'm suggesting is an intermediate confederation between Bashkir-like people and Chuvash/Mari-like people with a later contribution of Karakalpak-like people. During the Magyar migration, Germanic's were lying in front of Magyars, and were pushed by them. The only possible location for mixing before Carpathia is the Pontic Steppe, but the migration there was very fast due to the Turkic migration from the East fastened Magyar mobilization to the West, so it is rather likely it was in Central Europe.

[Blondie]

Modern genetic results disproved many of previous claims of historians; and what I'm suggesting is exactly this, modern genetic results suggests what I pointed out

Sure, i posted a modern genetic result of conqueror genetic (2019), and you considered it bullshit, because it could not pass in your narrative.

I'm evaluating the results and transferring to you and that's it.

Sure, that why you didnt post any source about your claims, what i did many times

Some other Hungarian academicians that I'm aware of are incapable of catching up with what genetics shows us -not something special to the Hungarian academicians, applies to all scientific world which has to carry out the certain methodology and usually not interested in with the subject as we, the DNA community- and so do you, apparently, because your evaluation was wrong on that matter.

Yes i have talked about this disgusting arrogance, that everyone is stupid only you see the real truth. Why do you think that you are more educated then the hungarian professors?

"Old Magyars" can't be Germanic shifted without mixing on the way or in the arriving place. And the samples show that they are indeed, but the samples are from Europe.

Huns mixed with them a lot, conqueror magyars and ostrogoths lived side by side and there were many varangian in Ukraine at this time. Who said that proto-magyars were germanic shifted? Nobody, i have talked about nomad conquerors who lived in East Europe. You also cant take difference between proto-magyars and conquerors, because you always confused them.

I'm also sure that I know more about Hungarian history than an average Hungarian, despite being completely foreign. That's about the working areas of the researchers rather than where they are from.

Nope, a foreigner have much less real information than a local scientist, simple because he dont understand the language and scientific debates, he is also absent when these researchs happens.
I am subscribed to every single scientific hungarian (MTA) youtube channel, i follow the news, the debates in hungarian language because im native speaker, im regular reader of "Rubicon" hungarian history magazine edited by profs from the academy, why do you know better the things than i am?
I am not making identity question about the hungarian prehistory, you know maybe im the most antituranist member in the this forum, i had tons of debate with Turul Karom but i accepted that the conquerors were turkic, because this is what the modern science proved, and i do care only the facts. If the coquerors were 1 meter tall australoid black skinned dwars i would not care, i would be still proud of my partly hungarian ancestry.

Many of these academicians defend it so that Hungarians can have more "Old Magyar" heritage.

Nope, the MTA (Hugarian Academy of Sciences) works independently from the politics and pseudo science. Actually Orbáns government dont like the MTA, and they consider it "anti-hungarian".

Magyars were highly mixed with Germanic's and then Slavs. Ostrogoths were pushed by Magyars to the West and Magyars were pushed by the Pechenegs then these all melted into one.

Exactly, this is what im talking about, but you denied this germanic mixing earlier lol

The actual conqueror organization consisted of 7 clans includes mixed Ugric - Onoghur populations and when they were in passing by Khazaria, 4 other Turkic clans, (supposedly Pecheneg) is joined them.

No, not really, kabars were not pechenegs for sure, but oghur turkic like chuvash, bulgar or khazar rebels. And the conquerors were not urgic genetically, but turkic-germanic mixed, and their original genetic core was turkic. Only the commoners had significant uralic genetic, but the commoners and elite are not same. The problem is you think the commoners and elite migrated to the Carpsthian Basin at same time but this is not true. In the 9. century, only the elite moved here led by Árpád, they were rougly 20000-60000 people, Prof Attila Török (from MTA) is talking about it here:



So the early migration concept that in the 9. century half million hungarian migrated to the Carpathian Basin is completely obsoleted and false.

The elite, on the other hand, seems to be Turkic, and Turkic should have been spoken so that we can explain these unknown origin Turkic words in modern Hungary

These misterious turkic words are hunnic for sure, who were oghur turkic speakers like bulgars or chuvash or khazar. The problem is the hunnic language is unknow.

but later the Ugric language is standardized through the tribes, because of political reasons as much as it understood.

Exactly, the turkic speaker magyar elite adopted the modern hungarian language from the commoners, because this both group merged as same, and it is the birth time and place of modern hungarian ethnicity. The commoners adopted the identity, statehood of Árpád and their gang, and the elite adopted the commoners language. But before this unification the commoners and elite were not same, and if we are talking about the hungarian prehistory we must take difference between elite and commoners. The Gesta Hungarorum is very good source because it describes that how the commoners lived here before Árpád. They were divided into small areas, ruled by the local hungarian warlord, and some of them have fought against Árpád too, for example the ruler of Borsod, if i remember correctly. The conqueror elite called these hungarian speaker commoners as 'hungárus" because they thought this population is descedants of the peoples who lived here during the Hun Empire and Árpád considered himself as descedants of Attila. I think this is the reason why are they merged into as same very quickly. In fact, the creation of hungarian state in 1000, was just a restoration of Hun Empire, because Árpád took this land in the name of Attila, this hun identity is connecting to hungarian identity since this ethnicity exist, so technically the modern Hungary is successor state of the european Hun Empire.

The only possible location for mixing before Carpathia is the Pontic Steppe, but the migration there was very fast

What are you talking about? The conquerors lived in this area (Etelköz, Levédia) for 150-200 years, the Magna Hungaria (earlier home) was also located in the Pontic Steppe:

[Kaspias]

Sure, i posted a modern genetic result of conqueror genetic (2019), and you considered it bullshit, because it could not pass in your narrative.

I didn't. I'm actually commenting on it already.

Sure, that why you didnt post any source about your claims, what i did many times

I don't need to make you believe what I stated, nor feel a need to win an argument, I have just corrected you.

Yes i have talked about this disgusting arrogance, that everyone is stupid only you see the real truth. Why do you think that you are more educated then the hungarian professors?

Well no, but older academicians(Profs) usually are lacking enough level of knowledge on population genetics, and the newbies come up with absurd ideas which will make them popular.

Huns mixed with them a lot, conqueror magyars and ostrogoths lived side by side and there were many varangian in Ukraine at this time. Who said that proto-magyars were germanic shifted? Nobody, i have talked about nomad conquerors who lived in East Europe. You also cant take difference between proto-magyars and conquerors, because you always confused them.

Please read my comments from the beginning. You either have problems with English or still twisting words, I can't really decide.

Nope, a foreigner have much less real information than a local scientist, simple because he dont understand the language and scientific debates, he is also absent when these researchs happens.
I am subscribed to every single scientific hungarian (MTA) youtube channel, i follow the news, the debates in hungarian language because im native speaker, im regular reader of "Rubicon" hungarian history magazine edited by profs from the academy, why do you know better the things than i am?
I am not making identity question about the hungarian prehistory, you know maybe im the most antituranist member in the this forum, i had tons of debate with Turul Karom but i accepted that the conquerors were turkic, because this is what the modern science proved, and i do care only the facts. If the coquerors were 1 meter tall australoid black skinned dwars i would not care, i would be still proud of my partly hungarian ancestry.

Good for you.

Nope, the MTA (Hugarian Academy of Sciences) works independently from the politics and pseudo science. Actually Orbáns government dont like the MTA, and they consider it "anti-hungarian".

Yes, Kliment Ohridski too.

Exactly, this is what im talking about, but you denied this germanic mixing earlier lol

I didn't. I have denied that "Old Magyars" had got a Germanic shift. Mixing in Etelköz or in Carpathia doesn't really make difference, it's both are arriving points. They didn't have that while they were in the Eastern Pontic Steppe, North Caucasia.

No, not really, kabars were not pechenegs for sure, but oghur turkic like chuvash, bulgar or khazar rebels. And the conquerors were not urgic genetically, but turkic-germanic mixed, and their original genetic core was turkic. Only the commoners had significant uralic genetic, but the commoners and elite are not same. The problem is you think the commoners and elite migrated to the Carpsthian Basin at same time but this is not true. In the 9. century, only the elite moved here led by Árpád, they were rougly 20000-60000 people, Prof Attila Török (from MTA) is talking about it here:

Yes. Kabars were probably have had an Oghur core, but Turkish sources state that Kabars(means "the ones who revolts") were revolted because of newly comer Pechenegs, and then two groups are re-organized by forming another group covering both. Kabar name disappears later, while Pecheneg remains.

So the early migration concept that in the 9. century half million hungarian migrated to the Carpathian Basin is completely obsoleted and false.

Well, I actually have never commented on it.

Exactly, the turkic speaker magyar elite adopted the modern hungarian language from the commoners, because this both group merged as same, and it is the birth time and place of modern hungarian ethnicity. The commoners adopted the identity, statehood of Árpád and their gang, and the elite adopted the commoners language. But before this unification the commoners and elite were not same, and if we are talking about the hungarian prehistory we must take difference between elite and commoners. The Gesta Hungarorum is very good source because it describes that how the commoners lived here before Árpád. They were divided into small areas, ruled by the local hungarian warlord, and some of them have fought against Árpád too, for example the ruler of Borsod, if i remember correctly. The conqueror elite called these hungarian speaker commoners as 'hungárus" because they thought this population is descedants of the peoples who lived here during the Hun Empire and Árpád considered himself as descedants of Attila. I think this is the reason why are they merged into as same very quickly. In fact, the creation of hungarian state in 1000, was just a restoration of Hun Empire, because Árpád took this land in the name of Attila, this hun identity is connecting to hungarian identity since this ethnicity exist, so technically the modern Hungary is successor state of the european Hun Empire.

Yes.

What are you talking about? The conquerors lived in this area (Etelköz, Levédia) for 150-200 years, the Magna Hungaria (earlier home) was also located in the Pontic Steppe:

Magna Hungaria was in the Caspian Steppe, and they had no contact with Germanic's over there. Turkic group within Proto Magyars probably came from inner Central Asia, even Tian-Shan and around, and then mixed with the local people of the Urals and Western Siberia(which is how Bashkirs are formed?)

Magyars were under Khazar control while they were in Levedia, and during the Khazar rule, Khazars have been settling newly comer Pechenegs to the Magyar lands. Levedia served as a melting pot for the Magyar population consisting of Ugric/Onoghur/Pecheneg components. At the same time, with arriving of Magyars and Pechenegs as well as Khazar domination in the region, Germanic's were forced to settle in the coastal Crimea and the around of Dnieper. The mixing might start in Etelköz but the Asian population was still dominant and reduced as they were settled in the behind of the Carpats. By the way, the name Etelköz is also representing the Pecheneg effect I have been talking about. It was written in the form of "Ατελ και ουζου" means "Atel and Uz". Atel is another form of "Attila" and "Uz" shall represent a clan of Pechenegs that segregated from Uzes lives in Caspian, comes from Oghuz. The Greek "και" may merge with the word in front of it in pronunciation.

[Anaximander]

Bulg-Arians,Hung-Arians
The only true Arians in EU

Στάλθηκε από το SM-A600FN μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

[Blondie]

I don't need to make you believe what I stated, nor feel a need to win an argument, I have just corrected you.

You haven't corrected me, because i have corrected you with scientific links.

Well no, but older academicians(Profs) usually are lacking enough level of knowledge on population genetics, and the newbies come up with absurd ideas which will make them popular.

Age has nothing to do with it. And i have posted Endre Neparáczki geneticist, he is pretty young, 33 years old.

Please read my comments from the beginning. You either have problems with English or still twisting words, I can't really decide.

I also wanted to say that for you, because firstly i have talked about the conquerors and you started to talk about proto-magyars, and you still didnt explain who are proto-magyars in your opinion, but i asked it many times.

I didn't. I have denied that "Old Magyars" had got a Germanic shift. Mixing in Etelköz or in Carpathia doesn't really make difference, it's both are arriving points. They didn't have that while they were in the Eastern Pontic Steppe, North Caucasia.

Proto-magyars came from more eastern, and i have never claimed that they had germanic genetic before Etelköz and Levédia.

Yes. Kabars were probably have had an Oghur core, but Turkish sources state that Kabars(means "the ones who revolts") were revolted because of newly comer Pechenegs, and then two groups are re-organized by forming another group covering both. Kabar name disappears later, while Pecheneg remains.

Turkish sources are totally irrelevant in Hungary. Sorry i trust in hungarian sources more. Kabars were rather oghur turkic not pechenegs.

Magna Hungaria was in the Caspian Steppe, and they had no contact with Germanic's over there.

Yes, or definitely not significantly.

Turkic group within Proto Magyars probably came from inner Central Asia, even Tian-Shan and around, and then mixed with the local people of the Urals and Western Siberia(which is how Bashkirs are formed?)

Okay but who are proto-magyars in your opinion? The elite or the commonersamd what place/time period? Why dont you answer? The original turkic genetic core o elite is from Altay and East Asia. They have not mixed with uralics.

Magyars were under Khazar control while they were in Levedia, and during the Khazar rule, Khazars have been settling newly comer Pechenegs to the Magyar lands. Levedia served as a melting pot for the Magyar population consisting of Ugric/Onoghur/Pecheneg components.

The problem with that the hungarian geneticists have not found uralic genetic among the elite, as i posted and quoted it from the Academy. The uralic genetic of commoners is much older because they migrated to the Carpathian Basin earlier than Árpád.

By the way, the name Etelköz is also representing the Pecheneg effect I have been talking about. It was written in the form of "Ατελ και ουζου" means "Atel and Uz". Atel is another form of "Attila" and "Uz" shall represent a clan of Pechenegs that segregated from Uzes lives in Caspian, comes from Oghuz.

Bullshit, "köz" means "between" in the hungarian language, hungarians often use it for geography names for example "duna-tisza köze" = "between Duna and Tisza" or "muraköz" = "between Mura" etc etc. So it means oghuzes lived everywhere? O course no, because this term came from magyars.