Crusades

**Mortimer** · 01-14-2022, 03:21 AM

At school I learned that the Crusades were "evil" and meant plunder and murder and were "intolerant" or Islamophobic etc. I also learned that Islam was peaceful and more tolerant than Christianity, the golden flower of Islam, science, progress, tolerance. But since the 9/11 war on terror I have come to realize that the Crusades were proclaimed very late, after Islam had already conquered half the world and forced Islam. In fact, they were used for defense. I also know now that Islam is not tolerant, and that Islam is at least as warlike and is out for conquest.

That's why I like the Crusaders now. Completely different from what I learned at school and what I believed at the time.

**NSXD60** · 01-14-2022, 04:08 AM

Imagine the beleaguered Crusaders about to be slaughtered by Muzzies, when, out of nowhere, appears an army of Roma who enter the fort and dispatch the attackers, securing the Holy Land for Christianity and sharing the honor by having their victory referred to as a Romaid = Roma-aid!

**Mortimer** · 01-14-2022, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by NSXD60

Imagine the beleaguered Crusaders about to be slaughtered by Muzzies, when, out of nowhere, appears an army of Roma who enter the fort and dispatch the attackers, securing the Holy Land for Christianity and sharing the honor by having their victory referred to as a Romaid = Roma-aid!

Many Roma were Soldiers in many wars, even if you think it is funny, but there was never an roma-army though.

Abstract
The Kingdom of Serbia fought in three consecutive conflicts between 1912 and 1918. These events merged into a devastating experience of an all-out war, completely reshaping all aspects of contemporary life. As the first centenary of these
events has recently shown, the memories of wartime still play a very prominent role in the Serbian national narrative.
By 1915 around 20% of Serbian combatants belonged to some of the country’s minorities. Second class citizens on the
social margins of society, the Serbian Roma constitute those whose wartime history is the least known to research and the
public. However, the wartime diaries kept by Serbian soldiers are full of causal references to their Roma fellow combatants.
This article provides an overview of the duties Roma soldiers played in the war, based on the perspective of Serbs who were
fighting alongside them. The article tackles the general image and the position of the Roma population in the Kingdom of
Serbia. In addition, the horrific challenges the war created for Serbian society are tackled from the perspective of those
who were, already in peace time, in the most disadvantageous situation socially and economically. Overall, despite the
unifying experience which the wartime suffering imposed on all citizens of the Kingdom, the old prejudices towards the
Roma survived after 1918.

The Roma as Serbian combatants were mentioned in
both of the Serbian uprisings organized in the 19th
century (in 1804–1813 and in 1815). For example, the
contemporary Vuk Stefanovic Karadžić wrote that “the
Gypsies had their own commander during the uprising”
(Acković, 2009, p. 91). In addition, the famous Serbian
poet, Sima Milutinović Sarajlija, wrote about the heroism of the Roma combatants. The first Serbian uprising
brought the Roma civil rights recognition, equality before the courts, freedom of religion, respect for customs
and traditions as well as land heritage. However, these
measures disappeared with the collapse of the Serbian
insurgency. The Roma were offered similar rights after
the second Serbian uprising, in 1815. However, it appears that this time the reforms did not bring palpable results. The historian Vladimir Stojančević explained
this as the result of a weaker Roma presence in the
rebel forces and its leadership than was the case in
the previous uprising (Jakšić & Bašić, 2005, pp. 20–21).
The Roma reappeared as Serbian fighters during the
turbulence of 1848. They were part of the forces sent
from the Serbian Principality to Serbs living in Southern
Hungary. Atanasije-Tasa Ivanović from the Serbian town
of Jagodina, the man responsible for tax collection from
the Serbian Roma, was ordered to form an exclusively
Roma outfit:
With 850 skilful Gypsies, along with zurlas and drums,
he continued during the freezing cold in December
1848. There were few of the Jagodina Gypsies, up
to 300, but others from Kragujevac, Pozarevac joined
them along the way, following Tasa’s order, which had
to be executed unconditionally. Sabac, Smederevo
and other places. There were up to 900 of them near
Višnjica on the Danube. It was an unusual and very
colourful army: One group (from Jagodina) wore the
ordinary clothes, with pistols and holsters, curved
sabres; others had more beautiful, colourful garbs
with a scarf around their heads, with large belts, in
which the guns were kept, together with the sharp
knives, a whip with a lead top, and with rifles on their
shoulders; on their feet they wore cavalry boots with
spurs; their banners had various flags. (Cvetić, 1910,
pp. 38–43)
Once across the Danube, fierce fighting ensued with
the Hungarian army near the town of Arad. It has been
recorded that 15 of the Serbian Roma soldiers were killed
in this battle (Cvetić, 1910, pp. 38–43).
In 1883, a standing army with compulsory military
service was introduced in the Kingdom of Serbia. This
was one of many measures aimed at modernizing the
state which had gained its independence in 1878. How
did the Roma fit into this system, which was based on
state bureaucracy and, above all, on the need for accurate addresses and years of birth? At first, the Serbian
authorities were tolerant and aware that a number of
Roma were clearly beyond the army’s reach. For the time
being only those Roma with permanent addresses and
valid documents were called up. However, the state decided to recruit also the so-called ‘wandering Roma.’ In
October 1891, the Serbian War Ministry made a decision
that would significantly affect the way of life of the Roma
in Serbia. It was a direct and dramatic interference of the
state in the traditional way of life of native Roma:

Serbian Roma Soldiers, 1912–1918 - Cogitatio Presshttps://www.cogitatiopress.com › article › download

**Mortimer** · 01-14-2022, 04:25 AM

Interesting: The Serbian uprising gave the roma civil rights not the ottomans, I learned that the Ottomans were very tolerant to their subjects much more tolerant then Europeans. But it seems Serbs were more tolerant. It was also the Serbs who ended Slavery.

In addition, the famous Serbian
poet, Sima Milutinović Sarajlija, wrote about the heroism of the Roma combatants. The first Serbian uprising
brought the Roma civil rights recognition, equality before the courts, freedom of religion, respect for customs
and traditions as well as land heritage. However, these
measures disappeared with the collapse of the Serbian
insurgency. The Roma were offered similar rights after
the second Serbian uprising, in 1815.

**Nomadian90'** · 01-15-2022, 12:48 PM

In school, you will never hear the truth, just what the regime wants to form obedient citizens.

Islam did not have its science. He adapted what the Middle Eastern peoples he had conquered had.

It's a pity the school doesn't teach what the crusades were for.
It was not easy for Christians under islam. High taxes forcing people to change their faith, persecution, obstruction of pilgrimages to Jerusalem, and continued military expansion.
They did not teach at school that islam had invaded christian Byzantium and Spain by force, murdering and raping whoever could? Where christianity was not forcibly imposed on the Levant. Asia Minor and North Africa.

Now tell me where did christianity convert by force? You are surprised what I will answer you!

**Ayetooey** · 01-15-2022, 12:58 PM

Individual Cusaders were a mixed bag, of course individual crusaders comitted evil and heinous acts as no one is without sin, but the crusades as a whole were a just cause excluding the 4th crusade which both eastern and western catholics can agree was a complete shitshow.