Originally Posted by
SouthDutch7991
If G25 is to be trusted, Ashkenazi come up as close to southern Italians as an Old Stock American does to any one European population.
An individual has higher distances to averages, while averages have lower distances to other averages. They should not be equated in my opinion. Example:
Code:
Distance to: SouthDutch7991_AncestryDNA_scaled
0.01647729 Welsh
Distance to: Welsh
0.00666391 English
0.00715940 English_Cornwall
0.00919005 Scottish
0.00968487 French_Brittany
0.01109619 Orcadian
0.01256714 Irish
0.01356472 Dutch
0.01671907 Danish
Originally Posted by
SouthDutch7991
As anyone who has read about European genetic clustering should know, Ashkenazi jews cluster very closely with Sicilian Italians and certain Greeks. There has been a lot of discussion over what the "mysterious" origin of Ashkenazi jews is, where their ancestry composition could be placed from around roman times, and if they are, or are not, Europeans. But isn't the simplest explanation that they are just southern Italians that became nomadic as a result of their religion?
As for Ashkenazi Jews, I highly doubt that they are Christian South Italians who converted to Judaism. They have different origins than southern Italians, although they are very similar because both have Levantine ancestry. Ashkenazi Jews are essentially Italian Jews with an 8 to 14% share of Central-Eastern European DNA and a little bit of Asian ancestry.
Code:
Ashkenazi_Germany,0.0973188,0.1423773,-0.014406,-0.0499358,0.010925,-0.0187694,-0.001974,-0.0017538,0.0098579,0.0188432,0.0039622,-0.0011239,0.0025123,-0.0026699,-0.0050489,0.0030892,0.0022035,-0.0016977,-0.0007794,-0.0011255,-0.0033441,-0.0026957,0.0008751,0.0013857,0.0008143
Ashkenazi_Eastern_Europe,0.100339449,0.134661756,-0.007020282,-0.040714564,0.010565987,-0.014641795,-0.001048462,-0.0006065,0.007163628,0.013880321,0.001334526,-0.000438051,0.002527218,7.23077E-05,-0.003763577,-6.46026E-05,-0.001893923,-0.000102282,0.000116013,-0.003508128,-0.003185128,-0.002343026,0.001667026,0.002399141,0.000372987
Distance to: Ashkenazi_Germany
0.01321694 Italian_Jew
0.01801459 Maltese
0.02033291 Italian_Calabria
0.02035722 Italian_Campania
0.02254849 Romaniote_Jew
0.02382730 Sephardic_Jew
0.02445781 Greek_Crete
0.02453768 Sicilian_East
0.02533199 Italian_Basilicata
0.02734138 Greek_Kos
0.02775236 Italian_Apulia
0.02801131 Greek_Dodecanese
0.02878019 Sicilian_West
Distance to: Ashkenazi_Eastern_Europe
0.01771348 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.02046245 Maltese
0.02154651 Italian_Campania
0.02264976 Italian_Basilicata
0.02268741 Sicilian_East
0.02306170 Italian_Calabria
0.02341853 Sicilian_West
0.02361708 Greek_Crete
0.02405216 Italian_Apulia
0.02603781 Italian_Abruzzo
0.02736491 Italian_Jew
0.02890239 Italian_Molise
0.02925047 Greek_Izmir
2-way models
Code:
Target: Ashkenazi_Germany
Distance: 0.0082% / 0.00822956 | R2P
91.6 Italian_Jew
8.4 Bosnian
Target: Ashkenazi_Eastern_Europe
Distance: 0.0091% / 0.00906519 | R2P
85.6 Italian_Jew
14.4 Moksha
Table of ancestral components. As you can see they are quite similar, the Italians however differ in having a larger EEF contribution and a smaller Middle Eastern and North African component.
What makes them resemble the Italians is also the shift towards the north due to the mixing with the Central-Eastern Europeans.
In case you're wondering how much Ashkenazi Jews are descended from Judean Jews before the Diaspora, I would say that the percentage depends mainly on which proxy is used as the Levantine ancestry of Ashkenazi Jews. With Samaritans: 38%, with Lebanese Christians: 50%, with Roman period Lebanese: 44%, and so on. Samaritans of all people have the most continuity with ancient populations, there is good reason to believe that in the 2nd century AD Judeans had a profile similar to theirs. Then I honestly don't know, we don't have ancient DNA from Judea from that period.
Code:
Distance to: Samaritan
0.02163410 Levant_Sidon_MBA
0.02287706 Levant_Ashkelon_LBA
0.02463971 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
0.02483747 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
There is a possibility that Jews in Judea had already mingled with other peoples, ending up looking more like today's Christian Lebanese rather than the more conservative Samaritans. Christian Lebanese are more shifted towards Anatolia, they have less Levant_N, more EEF and Steppe, this is also why if they are used as proxy the percentage explodes reaching 50%.
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