Why's Portugal's public life considerably more multi-ethnic than in other Southern Euro countries?

[Tooting Carmen]

Something I have noticed over the years. Compared to Spain, Italy, Greece and no doubt most if not all Balkan countries, there seem to be more public figures in Portugal who are foreign or non-white to varying degrees. The irony being that the percentage of immigrants in Portugal nowadays is, if anything, actually lower than in quite a few of those other countries.

SPORT = Around 25-30% of the national football team is non-white, which is closer to the German team's percentage than those of Spain/Italy/Greece. (The difference is that, compared to the German team, the Portuguese team has more Black and fewer MENA players).

POLITICS = Even the current Prime Minister, Antonio Costa, is part-Indian, and there have been a number of politicians over the years of Angolan origin in particular. In contrast, I cannot think of any politicians in Greece of foreign origin at all (N.B. Pontian and Anatolian Greeks don't really count in this respect), though on the other hand there have been a few notable cases in Spain (e.g. Monica Silvana Gonzalez, Pablo Echenique Robba) and Italy (e.g. Cecile Kyenge, Magdi Cristiano Allam).

MEDIA = Definitely more Black newsreaders and TV presenters in Portugal than in the other countries.

[solarisregvm]

Something I have noticed over the years. Compared to Spain, Italy, Greece and no doubt most if not all Balkan countries, there seem to be more public figures in Portugal who are foreign or non-white to varying degrees.

It's easy to see. Portugal had colonies spread all over the world while the others didn't.

The irony being that the percentage of immigrants in Portugal nowadays is, if anything, actually lower than in quite a few of those other countries.

That is misleading and already written in this forum. Having a portuguese nationality is extremely easy in this days, even more for portuguese-speaking countries and after few years those same people count as portuguese. Futhermore, millions of refugees coming in the 70's from the african colonies either white, mulatto or black never were considered nothing else than portuguese by the official records.

SPORT = Around 25-30% of the national football team is non-white, which is closer to the German team's percentage than those of Spain/Italy/Greece. (The difference is that, compared to the German team, the Portuguese team has more Black and fewer MENA players).

Depends on which sport you're talking about. Football maybe, despite excessive just to cause scandal. Other sports much less. Or even in football. Want to compare Portuguese National Team with German in this week U16 match? Start @ min. 6:00



POLITICS = Even the current Prime Minister, Antonio Costa, is part-Indian, and there have been a number of politicians over the years of Angolan origin in particular. In contrast, I cannot think of any politicians in Greece of foreign origin at all (N.B. Pontian and Anatolian Greeks don't really count in this respect), though on the other hand there have been a few notable cases in Spain (e.g. Monica Silvana Gonzalez, Pablo Echenique Robba) and Italy (e.g. Cecile Kyenge, Magdi Cristiano Allam).

Mixed People from ex-portuguese India have some relevance in a handful of public personalites like Vasco Palmeirim, Antonio Costa and Catarina Furtado (although to her is relatively distant as in greatgreatgreat indian grandparents) to name a few. Politicians of relevance Angola origined. I can't remember any, just the last Justice Minister Francisca Van Dunem. And again I can't remember Greece having Indian territories until recently. Is like saying the mayor of Britain is paki but Greece don't have any. Why is that so???!!

MEDIA = Definitely more Black newsreaders and TV presenters in Portugal than in the other countries.

Really? I'm aware of one with dreads that gave a lot of controversy and was presenting at a Sunday morning. I don't even know if he's still doing it? The others can be football political commentators but don't act like England don't have commentators like Rio Ferdinand's and alikes.

Why they have relevance? Because portuguese people are that intolerant people history books portray.

[Tooting Carmen]

Something I have noticed over the years. Compared to Spain, Italy, Greece and no doubt most if not all Balkan countries, there seem to be more public figures in Portugal who are foreign or non-white to varying degrees.

It's easy to see. Portugal had colonies spread all over the world while the others didn't.

Spain?

The irony being that the percentage of immigrants in Portugal nowadays is, if anything, actually lower than in quite a few of those other countries.

That is misleading and already written in this forum. Having a portuguese nationality is extremely easy in this days, even more for portuguese-speaking countries and after few years those same people count as portuguese. Futhermore, millions of refugees coming in the 70's from the african colonies either white, mulatto or black never were considered nothing else than portuguese by the official records.

Even if you look at country of birth as opposed to legal nationality, I think you'll find that, nowadays, Portugal has fewer immigrants than Spain, Italy, Greece and even some Balkan countries, what with their Syrian refugees etc.

SPORT = Around 25-30% of the national football team is non-white, which is closer to the German team's percentage than those of Spain/Italy/Greece. (The difference is that, compared to the German team, the Portuguese team has more Black and fewer MENA players).

Depends on which sport you're talking about. Football maybe, despite excessive just to cause scandal. Other sports much less. Or even in football. Want to compare Portuguese National Team with German in this week U16 match? Start @ min. 6:00

For now the percentage of non-white footballers (at senior level) in Portugal and Germany seems to be quite similar, although it is probably growing faster in the latter due to all the Middle Easterners in particular who have arrived in recent years.

POLITICS = Even the current Prime Minister, Antonio Costa, is part-Indian, and there have been a number of politicians over the years of Angolan origin in particular. In contrast, I cannot think of any politicians in Greece of foreign origin at all (N.B. Pontian and Anatolian Greeks don't really count in this respect), though on the other hand there have been a few notable cases in Spain (e.g. Monica Silvana Gonzalez, Pablo Echenique Robba) and Italy (e.g. Cecile Kyenge, Magdi Cristiano Allam).

Mixed People from ex-portuguese India have some relevance in a handful of public personalites like Vasco Palmeirim, Antonio Costa and Catarina Furtado to name a few. Politicians of relevance Angola origined. I can't remember any, just the last Justice Minister Francisca Van Dunem. And again I can't remember Greece having Indian territories until recently. Is like saying the mayor of Britain is paki but Greece don't have any. Why is that so???!!

Alright point taken.

MEDIA = Definitely more Black newsreaders and TV presenters in Portugal than in the other countries.

Really? I'm aware of one with dreads that gave a lot of controversy and was presenting at a Sunday morning. I don't even know if he's still doing it? The others can be football political commentators but don't act like England don't have commentators like Rio Ferdinand's and alikes.

I know Britain has lots of non-white celebrities. That's my point - in terms of how multi-ethnic its public life is, Portugal seems to be an outlier in Southern Europe and in many ways is actually more similar to Britain and other NW European countries instead.

Why they have relevance? Because portuguese people are that intolerant people history books portray.

I cannot fathom what you are trying to say?

[solarisregvm]

Spain?

So, Spain had representative and long-lasting colonies in India, China or Africa. Good to know new things about history. These are territories that were portuguese about half a century ago. Phillipines isn't spanish for much more than a century and Western Sahara is just that.... Western Sahara. Spain empire is overrated compared to Portuguese.

Even if you look at country of birth as opposed to legal nationality, I think you'll find that, nowadays, Portugal has fewer immigrants than Spain, Italy, Greece and even some Balkan countries, what with their Syrian refugees etc.



I repeat myself: the way these numbers are counted in Portugal is very different from other countries. Contrary to other countries foreigners are installed at least one generation or even more and that's why they are also more integrated into society different to all others which are still recent emigration. You do know that to climb the social ladder you'll need some 3 or 4 generations, riiiight?!

I know Britain has lots of non-white celebrities. That's my point - in terms of how multi-ethnic its public life is, Portugal seems to be an outlier in Southern Europe and in many ways is actually more similar to Britain and other NW European countries instead.

You're doing a circle in which I told you the reasons. Just Angola and Mozambique are almost the size of Europe. Join the other small african countries and smaller asian enclaves with portuguese historical, cultural and social background.
And then join Brazil which in itself is bigger than the EU. That's a lot of people.

Now, what happens is that the economic system and a consequence of being part of the EU is that the best and better educated and talented portuguese have to search for bigger opportunities where they are. In Central Europe and not in a peripheric EU country. It's logical. These portuguese people are very well educated and english-speakers compared to other southern europeans and have to leave being replaced by hordes of peoples from the portuguese speaking countries, and there you have it.

[hurtuv]

When you say politicians of Angolan origin, do you mean black people or ethnic Portuguese diaspora?

I also don't know many black newsreaders. There is a famous one who is sort of a light mulatta, and I think I have seen maybe one other who is proper black.

[Tooting Carmen]

Spain?

So, Spain had representative and long-lasting colonies in India, China or Africa. Good to know new things about history.

No, but it did colonise much of the Americas plus Philippines, Equatorial Guinea, Western Sahara and part of Morocco. Yet the number of public figures there of foreign origin is still noticeably smaller than in Portugal.

Even if you look at country of birth as opposed to legal nationality, I think you'll find that, nowadays, Portugal has fewer immigrants than Spain, Italy, Greece and even some Balkan countries, what with their Syrian refugees etc.

I repeat myself: the way these numbers are counted in Portugal is very different from other countries. Contrary to other countries foreigners are installed at least one generation or even more and that's why they are also more integrated into society different to all others which are still recent emigration. You do know that to climb the social ladder you'll need some 3 or 4 generations, riiiight?!

Yeah it is true that Portugal's immigrants have been there for longer than in the other countries. What I question is that, with migration trends since the 1990's, whether that necessarily means that there are also more foreign-born people in Portugal than the others too?

I know Britain has lots of non-white celebrities. That's my point - in terms of how multi-ethnic its public life is, Portugal seems to be an outlier in Southern Europe and in many ways is actually more similar to Britain and other NW European countries instead.

You're doing a circle in which I told you the reasons. Just Angola and Mozambique are almost the size of Europe. Join the other small african countries and smaller asian enclaves with portuguese historical, cultural and social background.
And then join Brazil which in itself is bigger than the EU. That's a lot of people.

Now, what happens is that the economic system and a consequence of being part of the EU is that the best and better educated and talented portuguese have to search for bigger opportunities where they are. In Central Europe and not in a peripheric EU country. It's logical. These portuguese people that have to leave are replace by hordes of peoples from the portuguese speaking countries, and there you have it.

Is Portuguese emigration to wealthier Western countries really still so massive as it clearly was especially between 1945-75? (That said, I remember how in Geneva loads of the cleaners and waiters were Portuguese, while there are also lots of Portuguese in the East of England working mainly in farms and factories).

[Tooting Carmen]

When you say politicians of Angolan origin, do you mean black people or ethnic Portuguese diaspora?

Both.

I also don't know many black newsreaders. There is a famous one who is sort of a light mulatta, and I think I have seen maybe one other who is proper black.

The few times I have watched Portuguese TV, I am sure I saw some who looked at least mixed-race if not fully Black.

[solarisregvm]

No, but it did colonise much of the Americas plus Philippines, Equatorial Guinea and part of Morocco. Yet the number of public figures there of foreign origin is still noticeably smaller than in Portugal.

Only the size of Brazil is almost the same as the size of the spanish america. But yeah .... Sure ....

I've told you. The impact on the culture was not as long-lasting and strong as the portuguese and 50 years ago these same colonies were portuguese contrary to the spanish. Comparing Equatorial Guinea to countries like Angola is laughable ... but keep going ...
Portugal was more than 500 years in Angola and Mozambique. Do you know how much of a impact does that have? Spain in Western Sahara and Eq. Guinea went by like a sandstorm.
Morocco, you say! Well, parts of Morocco were part of the Portuguese Empire. Even Ceuta and Tangier were portuguese. The only parts of Morocco that really have spanish social and cultural connectedness is really only Ceuta and Melilla and they belong to Spain.


Is Portuguese emigration to wealthier Western countries really still so massive as it clearly was especially between 1945-75? (That said, I remember how in Geneva loads of the cleaners and waiters were Portuguese, while there are also lots of Portuguese in the East of England working mainly in farms and factories).


LOL Are you still in last century?! 45-75? Those times that was another Portugal and people were from rural backgrounds, illiterate, escaping the war in Africa and escaping a dictatorship.
Nowadays portuguese emigration is totally diferent. PISA results just answer you that. Portugal is the southern european country with the best results and is on the world's top 25 almost reaching the 20th place in score on par with countries like the Netherlands ie.



The few times I have watched Portuguese TV, I am sure I saw some who looked at least mixed-race if not fully Black.

Ok. If you say so. It must be.

Just for the kek.

Switzerland vs Portugal basketball game



So, maybe if I would be you I would get to know more about something before expressing my opinion.

[Tooting Carmen]

No, but it did colonise much of the Americas plus Philippines, Equatorial Guinea and part of Morocco. Yet the number of public figures there of foreign origin is still noticeably smaller than in Portugal.

Only the size of Brazil is almost the same as the size of the spanish america. But yeah .... Sure ....

I've told you. The impact on the culture was not as long-lasting and strong as the portuguese and 50 years ago these same colonies were portuguese contrary to the spanish. Comparing Equatorial Guinea to countries like Angola is laughable ... but keep going ...
Morocco, you say! Well, parts of Morocco were part of the Portuguese Empire. Even Ceuta and Tangier were portuguese. The only parts of Morocco that really have spanish social and cultural connectedness is really only Ceuta and Melilla and they belong to Spain.


Is Portuguese emigration to wealthier Western countries really still so massive as it clearly was especially between 1945-75? (That said, I remember how in Geneva loads of the cleaners and waiters were Portuguese, while there are also lots of Portuguese in the East of England working mainly in farms and factories).


LOL Are you still in last century?! 45-75? Those times that was another Portugal and people were from rural backgrounds, illiterate, escaping the war in Africa and escaping a dictatorship.
Nowadays portuguese emigration is totally diferent. PISA results just answer you that. Portugal is the southern european country with the best results and is on the world's top 25 almost reaching the 20th place in score on par with countries like the Netherlands ie.



The few times I have watched Portuguese TV, I am sure I saw some who looked at least mixed-race if not fully Black.

Ok. If you say so. It must be.

Just for the kek.

Switzerland vs Portugal basketball game



So, maybe if I would be you I would get to know more about something before expressing my opinion.

Nevertheless, Hispanic America is as a whole bigger and more populous than Brazil (all the more so when you consider the diaspora in the US too). And although there have been some politicians and sportspeople in Spain of Latin American descent, it is still less common than in Portugal. And this thing about colonies doesn't by itself explain mass immigration - look at Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Sweden and Norway... Also, you misunderstood my point about Portuguese emigration: I was precisely saying that I would be surprised if it were still so numerous now as it was in 1945-75 when Portugal was many times poorer.

[solarisregvm]

Just to know your thinking: Do you consider her mixed-race?