Majority of Germans against Ukrainian NATO membership

[Harkonnen]

For many Central Europeans Russia is a useful scapegoat to distract from inner problems and get more western funding. The Soviet Union voluntarily gave it republics and client states independence and was promised that Nato would not expand but NATO expanded and staged anti-Russian coups almost everywhere in the former Soviet Union so Russian interventions in places like Ukraine and Georgia are very understandable. Ironically there was a time when Russia wanted to join NATO and tried to improve its relationship with the West but all it got was arrogance, staging of anti-russian coups and funding of chechen seperatists. Your country is much more threatened by Washington than by Russia but i feel like you will continue to cry about Russia even if Helsinki becomes like some Detroit.

Why the hell should Russia be entitled to have some fucking sphere of influence in any case? Just because it big and fat? I say sphere's of influence are for fucking fags. Most countries in the world are tiny fucks with no chance to have some pussyass sphere of influence -- yet they manage. Yet huge country like Russia feels entitled to be scared and want to have sphere of safety. Who the fuck is going to attack you maniacs? Who? Yet you shiver in scare like bunnyrabbits -- I'm in laff right now. Biggest scare to you fucks should come from inside. Concentrate more on infrastructure and economy. Seek strength from inside. Strengthen what you have.

[Lemgrant]

interview from year 2000: ))




https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-8cae673790cd/


Putin Says 'Why Not?' to Russia Joining NATO

Acting Russian President Vladimir Putin, in an unexpected gesture to the West, suggested in a television interview today that Russia would consider joining NATO if the Western alliance agreed to treat Russia as an equal partner.

"Why not? Why not?" Putin said when asked by BBC interviewer David Frost about Russian membership. "I do not rule out such a possibility . . . in the case that Russia's interests will be reckoned with, if it will be an equal partner."

"Russia is a part of European culture, and I do not consider my own country in isolation from Europe and from . . . what we often talk about as the civilized world," Putin said. "Therefore, it is with difficulty that I imagine NATO as an enemy."

[Peterski]

Putin Says 'Why Not?' to Russia Joining NATO

What made him change his mind later?

[Nausevar]

There is no reason why Germans, nor the Dutch, Belgians and others should get involved of the Ukrainian question. Let them sort it out by themselves. we dont need American bullshit here, because thats what its all about, American geopolitical interests. Retarded USA....

I can understand an economic interest for the EU to include Ukraine with its work force and market. But the US is far away and having to defend Ukraine from an eventual invasion from Russia would only be a major cost, and Russia has nukes. So I don't see a vital interest in Ukraine for the west, at the same time I don't think Nato would ever use Ukraine to launch missiles or something like that.

Neither Germany is a expansionist national-socialist country in 2022 nor is Russia a expansionist communist country in 2022.

The most expansionist force post ww2 is by far the USA and NATO and its not about taking land, its about military bases, deployment of nuclear arsenal and takeover over natural resources by american/western companies. I never heard you ONCE say anything about these facts.

The only difference is that Russia is not apologetic and defeatist over its own history, that's a German trait that is very disgusting and submissive.

Russians will always defend their country's behaviour because they have a very uncritical attitude towards themselves. It's a psychological thing that trascends this or that historical period. Even centuries ago westerners were more objective in evaluating their past and their present, while russians always have to act and don't care about the truth. It's all caused by their culture and political system that encourages mindless following of their authorities.
NATO didn't deploy nuclear weapons near Russia:

If they wanted to threaten Russia, they could have already moved the nukes to Norway or Estonia. No need for Ukraine to join NATO.

Imo, Germany only has one choice and it’s neutrality. Look at other German nations like Switzerland and Austria. Switzerland has another history but Austria is much more responsible than Germany is. Their constitution forbids joining a military alliance, I wish the same here. It was a mistake staying a Nato member after reunification, Germany should be out of any conflict in this world, but should try to keep the peace in Europe which is very important. The Russian fear of Nato is real like East European fear of Russia, at most we should offer arbitration. Whether it was historically false giving Russian parts to Ukraine, Russia has to respect international law and stop influencing East Europe with shady methods. And according international law Crimea and East Ukraine is not Russia, regardless of any historical legamitation. Imagine Germany would annect Königsberg. On the other hand East Europeans have to accept that Nato shouldn’t be allowed to be present there, we promised Gorbatschow that Nato won’t expand to East Europe. This was the basis of the peaceful end of the cold war. Nato is not peaceful and committed war crimes, this argument of the expansion of an organization which keeps democracies alive amd spread human rights is obviously a joke considering the chaos in some countries or the fact Ukraine is ruled by corrupt Neonazi oligarchs.

NATO will never attack Russia and there are almost no soldiers in eastern european countries like baltics, Poland and Romania, especially compared to the russians near Ukraine. Russia makes exercises with 150 thousand troops, while NATO deploys 5000 in Poland, how is that a threat to Russia?
Gorbachov said NATO wasn't mentioned at all when he talked with US government, iirc americans told him they wouldn't put missiles east of Germany. And, iirc they didn't. Poland and Romania have anti-missile systems.
Can you name the neonazi oligarchs?
I feel like this is all about prestige and not real security issues. But maybe I'm wrong.

[Crn Volk]

If a majority of Germans with rising numbers keeps opposing Ukraine it will and already does result in political decision and Ukraine wont join NATO if German vetoes its membership.
Just like way less significant Greece stopped Macedonia from joining NATO so far.

After years and years I finally can stand behind my Nation on foreign policy, just the helmets we sent to Ukraine are already to much money wasted on such a irrelevant nation.

Macedonia is 30th NATO member