Majority of Germans against Ukrainian NATO membership

[Victor]

that soviet "collectivism" is strong with you, btw. that shift you (Russians) to Germans, the differences are anchoring deeper, and when both sides finally see it.... soon again

Nah, I'm individualist, but I soberly realize that my opinion is not more than my opinion, I try to have less of useless opinions anyway, prefering to watch from the side. Whether you like it or not, but one useless/useful opinion will lose against 1000 useless/useful opinions. Amateurish personal opinions and opinions of the crowd are different kinds of shit.

[Finnish Swede]

I really don't understand why you fear a Russian Invasion. Not even the Soviet Union tried to invade you after 1945 and absolutely no one in Russia cares about Finnland. As long as you are neutral nothing will happen. But i guess your media talks all day about Soviets 2.0 invading you and in the same time you get "enrichment" from all over the world

There are lots of more than pure invasion. Something which I still will never gonna accept (my spirit & my soul). Yes, Hell will froze more quicker.

Saying shortly: How ''free'' country can be. What kind of decision country can do etc. Important parts what I calculate to Independence.

Something what those who are living more far from Russia and Russians will never know/understand.

[Arūnas]

^^
it took only two fcking years with common border between Germany and USSR to understand the differences (1939-1941)

[Teutone]

^^
it took only two fcking years with common border between Germany and USSR to understand the differences (1939-1941)

Neither Germany is a expansionist national-socialist country in 2022 nor is Russia a expansionist communist country in 2022.

The most expansionist force post ww2 is by far the USA and NATO and its not about taking land, its about military bases, deployment of nuclear arsenal and takeover over natural resources by american/western companies. I never heard you ONCE say anything about these facts.

The only difference is that Russia is not apologetic and defeatist over its own history, that's a German trait that is very disgusting and submissive.

[Arhat]

^^
it took only two fcking years with common border between Germany and USSR to understand the differences (1939-1941)

What has this to do with 2022? I am really tired of people defending current NATO expansion and retarded geopolitical conflict in Ukraine with things which happened almost 100 years ago and were done by a state which voluntarily broke apart and give free independence to its client states and republics. I feel like the sole existence of Russia is something that makes some people seethe and cry.

[Mejgusu]

the point is - you will never be strong to act sovereign, you have to choose your alliance

Imo, Germany only has one choice and it’s neutrality. Look at other German nations like Switzerland and Austria. Switzerland has another history but Austria is much more responsible than Germany is. Their constitution forbids joining a military alliance, I wish the same here. It was a mistake staying a Nato member after reunification, Germany should be out of any conflict in this world, but should try to keep the peace in Europe which is very important. The Russian fear of Nato is real like East European fear of Russia, at most we should offer arbitration. Whether it was historically false giving Russian parts to Ukraine, Russia has to respect international law and stop influencing East Europe with shady methods. And according international law Crimea and East Ukraine is not Russia, regardless of any historical legamitation. Imagine Germany would annect Königsberg. On the other hand East Europeans have to accept that Nato shouldn’t be allowed to be present there, we promised Gorbatschow that Nato won’t expand to East Europe. This was the basis of the peaceful end of the cold war. Nato is not peaceful and committed war crimes, this argument of the expansion of an organization which keeps democracies alive amd spread human rights is obviously a joke considering the chaos in some countries or the fact Ukraine is ruled by corrupt Neonazi oligarchs.

[Arūnas]

sorry, but noone has rights to dictate anything (directly)
Rape jokes are outrageous: the White House commented on Putin's words "bear with me, my beauty" to Ukraine
https://frontnews.eu/en/news/details/18901

the difference is to encourage someone or force

this "sex contact" has to be good for both sides, to be seen as accurate - in other condition it is a RAPE over country

[Harkonnen]

Neither Germany is a expansionist national-socialist country in 2022 nor is Russia a expansionist communist country in 2022.

The most expansionist force post ww2 is by far the USA and NATO and its not about taking land, its about military bases, deployment of nuclear arsenal and takeover over natural resources by american/western companies. I never heard you ONCE say anything about these facts.

The only difference is that Russia is not apologetic and defeatist over its own history, that's a German trait that is very disgusting and submissive.

Difference is countries join NATO willingly. In fact only reason countries join NATO is Russia. Russia should ask itself why nobody wants to join Russia. Oh-okay maybe some exceptions like Belarus, and whatnot Arabian dictatorships etc. It is not Russian's business at all if there is fex NATO base in Finland, as Finland is not Russia, and in our lands we do WHATEVER THE FUCK WE WANT

[Arhat]

Difference is countries join NATO willingly. In fact only reason countries join NATO is Russia. Russia should ask itself why nobody wants to join Russia. Oh-okay maybe some exceptions like Belarus, and whatnot Arabian dictatorships etc. It is not Russian's business at all if there is fex NATO base in Finland, as Finland is not Russia, and in our lands we do WHATEVER THE FUCK WE WANT

For many Central Europeans Russia is a useful scapegoat to distract from inner problems and get more western funding. The Soviet Union voluntarily gave it republics and client states independence and was promised that Nato would not expand but NATO expanded and staged anti-Russian coups almost everywhere in the former Soviet Union so Russian interventions in places like Ukraine and Georgia are very understandable. Ironically there was a time when Russia wanted to join NATO and tried to improve its relationship with the West but all it got was arrogance, staging of anti-russian coups and funding of chechen seperatists. Your country is much more threatened by Washington than by Russia but i feel like you will continue to cry about Russia even if Helsinki becomes like some Detroit.

[Arūnas]

lol, fallen empire gave something,,, you lose, you were forced to eat those horrible conditions