Where does this misconception of the US being so Leftist come from?

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

The NHS is far from perfect, but at least no one will be left to die because they cannot afford the medical bill.

Have you never heard of Medicaid? The poor in the US are better off than me (I'm self employed and so I pay my own health insurance) if I have a medical issue. I'm punished for being responsible. That's the real issue.

There are serious issues in the states when it comes to the health system but I get annoyed at Euro-know-it-alls who dislike our health system for the wrong reasons. The issue is not that we have to pay but that prices are jacked up. There is no transparency.

[Tooting Carmen]

Have you never heard of Medicaid?

Not everybody has access to it either.

[Hialt]

I think that because of the liberal value of freedom of speech, which allows Leftism to speak freely and openly without government interference, the US is a rather "liberal" country on the globe. To that extent, and in that sense, "Leftism" is sometimes prominently on display.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Not everybody has access to it either.

Go back and read my post. I added more.

[Tooting Carmen]

Have you never heard of Medicaid? The poor in the US are better off than me (I'm self employed and so I pay my own health insurance) if I have a medical issue. I'm punished for being responsible. That's the real issue.

There are serious issues in the states when it comes to the health system but I get annoyed at Euro-know-it-alls who dislike our health system for the wrong reasons. The issue is not that we have to pay but that prices are jacked up. There is no transparency.

The US government actually spends more per capita on healthcare than most European governments do - the difference is that much of the money is spent on administration and marketing, rather than on beds and medical staff.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

The US government actually spends more per capita on healthcare than most European governments do - the difference is that much of the money is spent on administration and marketing, rather than on beds and medical staff.

Is this supposed to be a counter argument? Does it contradict anything I said?

1. Multiple Systems Create Waste
“Administrative” costs are frequently cited as a cause for excess medical spending. The U.S. spends about 8% of its health care dollar on administrative costs, compared to 1% to 3% in the 10 other countries the JAMA study looked at.3


The U.S. healthcare system is extremely complex, with separate rules, funding, enrollment dates, and out-of-pocket costs for employer-based insurance, private insurance from healthcare.gov, Medicaid, and Medicare, in all its many pieces. In each of these sectors, consumers must choose among several tiers of coverage, high deductible plans, managed care plans (HMOs and PPOs), and fee-for-service systems. These plans may or may not include pharmaceutical drug insurance which has its own tiers of coverage, deductibles, and copays or coinsurance.

For providers, this means dealing with myriad regulations about usage, coding, and billing. And, in fact, these activities make up the largest share of administrative costs.5

2. Drug Costs Are Rising
On average, Americans shell out almost twice as much for pharmaceutical drugs as citizens of other industrialized countries pay. High drug prices are the single biggest area of overspending in the U.S. compared to Europe, where drug prices are government regulated, often based on the clinical benefit of the medication.

With little regulation of drug prices, the U.S. spends an average of $1,443 per person, compared to $749, on average, spent by the other prosperous countries studied. Drug prices in the U.S. are 256% of those in comparison countries. In the U.S. private insurers can negotiate drug prices with manufacturers, often through the services of pharmacy benefit managers. However, Medicare, which pays for a hefty percentage of the national drug costs, is not permitted to negotiate prices with manufacturers.637

3. Doctors (and Nurses) Are Paid More
The average U.S. family doctor earns $214,370 a year as of 2020, and specialists make $316,000—way above the average in other industrialized countries. American nurses make considerably more than elsewhere, too. The average salary for a U.S. nurse is about $74,250, compared to $58,041 in Switzerland and $60,253 in the Netherlands.8910

U.S. managed care plans (HMOs and PPOs) may succeed in lowering healthcare costs by requiring prior authorization for seeing a high-priced specialist. The use of a nurse practitioner instead of a family doctor can also save money.

$11,170
The cost of a hospital birth in the U.S., which is over $7,000 more than the cost in the Netherlands.11

4. Hospitals Are Profit Centers
Hospital care accounts for 31% of the nation’s healthcare costs.12 Between 2007 and 2014, prices for inpatient and outpatient hospital care rose much faster than physician prices, according to a 2019 study in Health Affairs.13 Hospital expenditures grew 6.4% in 2020 to $1.27 trillion.14

U.S. prices for surgical procedures in hospitals greatly exceed those of other countries. A typical angioplasty to open a blocked blood vessel, for example, costs $6,390 in the Netherlands, $7,370 in Switzerland, and $32,230 in the U.S. Similarly, a heart bypass operation in the U.S. costs $78,100 compared to $32,010 in Switzerland.11

Today, many hospitals are on the brink financially. What's more, the cessation of elective surgery and severely declining provider visits because of the coronavirus lockdown account for a big part of the decline in the overall economy.15

5. U.S. Healthcare Practices Defensive Medicine
Both physicians and hospitals have an interest in preventing lawsuits, so “just in case” tests and scans may be ordered. And these tests can be costly. While a CT scan costs just $97 in Canada and $500 in Australia, the average cost is $896 in the U.S.

A typical MRI scan costs $1,420 in the U.S., but around $450 in Britain. Researchers have concluded that it’s not the sheer number of tests and procedures but their high price that explains why it’s so expensive to be sick in the U.S.1110

6. U.S. Prices Vary Wildly
Because of the complexity of the system and the lack of any set prices for medical services, providers are free to charge what the market will bear. The amount paid for the same healthcare service can vary significantly depending on the payer (i.e. private insurance or government programs, such as Medicare or Medicaid) and geographical area.

The Bottom Line
Most other developed countries control costs, in part, by having the government play a stronger role in negotiating prices for healthcare. Their healthcare systems don’t require the high administrative costs that drive up pricing in the U.S.
https://www.investopedia.com/article...pensive-us.asp

[Tooting Carmen]

Is this supposed to be a counter argument? Does it contradict anything I said?

And you're wrong about medical staff and 'beds.'

If the US were to have a more socialised healthcare system, it would actually among other things remove the costs associated with marketing in particular and thus become more efficient.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

If the US were to have a more socialised healthcare system, it would actually among other things remove the costs associated with marketing in particular and thus become more efficient.

Read the article I posted.

Yeah, I have dead relatives because of socialized health system. Waiting months for surgery can be a death sentence.

[frankhammer]

The NHS is far from perfect, but at least no one will be left to die because they cannot afford the medical bill.

They die waiting instead or reach the point where surgery is pointless.

[Universe]

LOL at those who talk about the US being so left-wing. This is the same country where:

- Millions live without health insurance.
- The death penalty is still practiced in some states.
- More people are incarcerated than anywhere else both in relative and real terms.
- Parental leave and holiday pay are by far the least generous in the industrialised world.
- University education is by far the most expensive in the industrialised world.
- Around half the population own guns.
- The government spends more on the military than the next twenty or so countries COMBINED (including China).

All this stuff about BLM, man-hating feminism and genderfluidity is, to a quite considerable extent, a massive red herring. And even accepting the decidedly shallow (mis)understanding many on this forum have about what Leftism is, the US certainly is not that exceptional. In terms of LGBT acceptance, the Pew Global Survey puts the US as closer to Chile than Sweden. In terms of racial tolerance, that there are a lot more non-white politicians, media personalities, businesspeople, sportspeople etc. than in the past is merely the country reflecting itself, which for a long time it really did not. Furthermore, Blacks in Britain marry out at substantially higher rates than their US counterparts do.

Blacks in UK marry out more because they make up only 3% of UK's population (and 13% in USA). When you're one of the 2 black people in a group of 50, you're more likely to marry a white person than in a group of 50 where there are 6 black people. I don't see how BLM is a red herring, in USA white people are taught to feel bad about themselves for being white and for having more money than blacks on avarage.
USA is not especially leftist as a whole but a lot of woke / anti-white concept originate from there like white privilege, white fragility, toxic masculinity, fragile masculinity etc. These concepts are linked to leftism and non-American leftists adopt these ideas. USA is a hotbed for certain ideas and provide non-American leftists with intellectual support. I'd say USA simultaneously have more extreme right wingers and extreme left wingers than Europe.