Russian forces cross Ukrainian border 22.02.2022 morning

[Victor]

I read Putin's rejected proposal of peace talks from Naftali Bennett in Jerusalem... good answer, unfortunately it's hard to trust Jews, especially Israeli administration that is completely working with CIA.

I thought maybe Erdogan could have been this "ombudsman", since he has relationships with both sides, although him being part of the NATO, make him less neutral.

there will be useless negotiations tomorrow's morning in Gomiel, Belorussia. Zelensky's office supposed to use them to stop Russian advance, as they need Eastern group based in Donbass to get out of "cauldron", to avoid being surrounded by two russian armies moving from north and south. Ukrainians are running literally through fields and forests. It's gonna be a huge strategical victory to block them, Russia rejected to stop military actions for this, so probably they're gonna meet for nothing. Part of those troops preferred not to run, but to stay in two cities Kramatorsk and Severodonetsk, i have no idea what for, if they're clever enough they're gonna surrender, if they're stupid, they're gonna die for collapsing state.

[RogueState]

As I see it, from my modest outsider perspective (and Russian/Ukrainian members are welcome to correct it), a best case scenario for a peace agreement, with pragmatic solutions :

- To be discussed : annexion to Russia or independance or large autonomy of Donetsk-Lugansk republics (within 2014 borders of oblasts)
- De jure recognition of Crimea as part of Russia
- Federalization of Ukraine, with recognized regional rights for the Russians/Russian-speaking territories from Odessa to Kharkiv (outside of Lugansk-Donetsk)
- Russian military base in Odessa
- Constitutional ban in terms of forming military alliances (de jure neutrality) for entire Ukraine

Then, in order to heal and build back Ukraine, allowing economic trade agreements with Russia and EU.

Ukraine being de facto a buffer state, as it should have always been (which will allow them to get respect of their sovereignty)

[Victor]

As I see it, from my modest outsider perspective (and Russian/Ukrainian members are welcome to correct it), a best case scenario for a peace agreement, with pragmatic solutions :

- To be discussed : annexion to Russia or independance or large autonomy of Donetsk-Lugansk republics (within 2014 borders of oblasts)
- De jure recognition of Crimea as part of Russia
- Federalization of Ukraine, with recognized regional rights for the Russians/Russian-speaking territories from Odessa to Kharkiv (outside of Lugansk-Donetsk)
- Russian military base in Odessa
- Constitutional ban in terms of forming military alliances (de jure neutrality) for entire Ukraine

Then, in order to heal and build back Ukraine, allowing economic trade agreements with Russia and EU.

Ukraine being de facto a buffer state, as it should have always been (which will allow them to get respect of their sovereignty)

I guess it won't happen, but I would love to separate Ukraine into two countries. By the 1939 line, when Stalin annexed Polish lands. Those people are alien to Russians and most of Ukrainians, Those lands poison whole Ukrainian body with Banderist version of Ukrainian nationalism enforced through communist post WWII elites. It would be lovely if this alien alternative Ukraine will join EU NATO and everything possible they want + everyone who dislikes new Ukraine may leave there,

Reality for now is putting pro-russian temporary government, further elections, full demilitarization without right to have own army, few russian military bases across the country, wide federalization (LDNR will probably be part of new federalized Ukraine), Crimea will be left Russian.

Again, I hope for this separation of Ukraine into two states as I see that Russia does not interfere in the west at all, like it does not exist. I'm too lazy to draw it on map at the moment, it's 2:43 am in Moscow now

[Mopi Licinius Crassus]

I guess it won't happen, but I would love to separate Ukraine into two countries. By the 1939 line, when Stalin annexed Polish lands. Those people are alien to Russians and most of Ukrainians, Those lands poison whole Ukrainian body with Banderist version of Ukrainian nationalism enforced through communist post WWII elites. It would be lovely if this alien alternative Ukraine will join EU NATO and everything possible they want + everyone who dislikes new Ukraine may leave there,

Reality for now is putting pro-russian temporary government, further elections, full demilitarization without right to have own army, few russian military bases across the country, wide federalization (LDNR will probably be part of new federalized Ukraine), Crimea will be left Russian.

Again, I hope for this separation of Ukraine into two states as I see that Russia does not interfere in the west at all, like it does not exist. I'm too lazy to draw it on map at the moment, it's 2:43 am in Moscow now

Dnieper River is the boundary between pro west Ukraine and pro Russia Ukraine ?

[Longbowman]

Logwoman

kek

'If I say you want the last word, you have to let me throw my childish insults at you and not reply, otherwise you prove you want the last word.'

[RogueState]

there will be useless negotiations tomorrow's morning in Gomiel, Belorussia. Zelensky's office supposed to use them to stop Russian advance, as they need Eastern group based in Donbass to get out of "cauldron", to avoid being surrounded by two russian armies moving from north and south. Ukrainians are running literally through fields and forests. It's gonna be a huge strategical victory to block them, Russia rejected to stop military actions for this, so probably they're gonna meet for nothing. Part of those troops preferred not to run, but to stay in two cities Kramatorsk and Severodonetsk, i have no idea what for, if they're clever enough they're gonna surrender, if they're stupid, they're gonna die for collapsing state.

What would be the turning point according to you, that will make Ukraine surrender ? Kiev being taken ?

Aren't Russians afraid of a collapse of rouble and every prices of imported goods increasing therefore ?

I try to watch and read different narratives (mainstream French media, RT, TASS, Serbian Politika), but it's really hard to get real situation : the pro-Western bias will tend to overestimate Ukraine's resistance and demonize, belittle Russia; but on the other hand, Russia is certainly also not trying to show the reality in order to keep legitimacy in this conflict

I've been for years a pro-Putin and very skeptical of Western imperialism, but I recognize here I find Putin's invasion disproportional and counter-productive, in terms of global strategy for mid and long run (in the sense that even if Ukraine surrender in 1 week, what about in 1, 5, 10 years ?)

What saddens me the most tbh is that I feel it was like a useful idiot move, being a sparring partner of the EU-NATO that demonized him for years and now are happy that he showed his "evil face", giving illegitimacy of all right-wing nationalist-populist movements for the coming years...

I understand the internal necessity of getting respected, not allowing Donbass people being abused and killed, but it could have been done more delicately (maybe just a military operation in Donbass ?)

[Victor]

Dnieper River is the boundary between pro west Ukraine and pro Russia Ukraine ?

No, it's wider, but it mixed a little bit through last two decades, this line may be called a traditional "separator" (you can notice such separation on lingustic, electoral and other maps).

Central and northern Ukraine has mostly strict Ukrainian identity (except Sumy and Chernigov), but they're really amorphous, like some kind of plasticine, they're barely ideological. Western Ukraine is really alien to us and we will never be the same.

[Longbowman]

I'm very confused with EU and US reports about military help, like 300-500-900 mlns of euros or some ammo, airplanes, vehicles, kerosene. I don't get how are they gonna receive all those goods. All airfields including western Ukraine are already destroyed.

Trains, lorries.

[Victor]

What would be the turning point according to you, that will make Ukraine surrender ? Kiev being taken ?

Aren't Russians afraid of a collapse of rouble and every prices of imported goods increasing therefore ?

I try to watch and read different narratives (mainstream French media, RT, TASS, Serbian Politika), but it's really hard to get real situation : the pro-Western bias will tend to overestimate Ukraine's resistance and demonize, belittle Russia; but on the other hand, Russia is certainly also not trying to show the reality in order to keep legitimacy in this conflict

I've been for years a pro-Putin and very skeptical of Western imperialism, but I recognize here I find Putin's invasion disproportional and counter-productive, in terms of global strategy for mid and long run (in the sense that even if Ukraine surrender in 1 week, what about in 1, 5, 10 years ?)

What saddens me the most tbh is that I feel it was like a useful idiot move, being a sparring partner of the EU-NATO that demonized him for years and now are happy that he showed his "evil face", giving illegitimacy of all right-wing nationalist-populist movements for the coming years...

I understand the internal necessity of getting respected, not allowing Donbass people being abused and killed, but it could have been done more delicately (maybe just a military operation in Donbass ?)

We got realy threats of intercontinental missiles 450 km from Moscow, we were threatened with renewing nuclear program of Ukraine, one of first things we did is taking over Chernobyl nuclear plant. There are lots of madmans and nationalists who would consider nuclear tragedy. There's generally lots of ideoligically pumped people at the moment who want to send everything around to hell, if it's not gonna be the same like before. Ukrainian nationalists have irrational animal hate towards majority of own population. Most of Ukrainians voted for Zelensky as he was talking about end of war, people were really tired of nationalist bullshit. Nationalists in social media openly name common Ukrainians as "biological masses", while they are themselves some sort of woke minority. I have a relative in Kiev now, son of my mother's nephew, he was a member of Poroshenko's party, he's not a nazi, but an uber-patriot, once he told me that "on every free elections pro-Russian candidate will win". He's in his flat in center of Kiev now, i'm happy he's not out with a gun, I hope he's gonna be well, being brainwashed is not a crime anyway..

[Adamm]

Sorry for the stupid question, but is the Ukrainian language really different from Russian? And if yes, can Russians understand it or not or is it like totally different?