Russian forces cross Ukrainian border 22.02.2022 morning

[Smaland]

This photo was posted along with the article linked to below.

Heavily armed Russian troops have been filmed parading a Soviet Union flag as dozens of tanks and armored vehicles (rolled) through war-torn Ukraine.

The footage, which was posted online by Russia’s Ministry of Defense on Wednesday, showed the military vehicles slowly driving in single file along deserted roads.
...

The video is contained in the article.

Full story at the New York Post

[JosephK]

I am surprised how many people here repeat the erroneous talking point that "NATO promised not to expand into East Europe". This thing never happened, also if it did happen it would be completely irrelevant and meaningless. To claim otherwise is to not understand a lick of international diplomacy.

Another disproven contention - the idea that Russia attacked Ukraine out of "self-defense" since the latter had plans to apply for NATO membership - this is categorically false.

You seem to not have access to some important pieces of information. It is false that your "disproven contention" is "categorically false."

[ixulescu]

You seem to not have access to some important pieces of information. It is false that your "disproven contention" is "categorically false."

Post the document signed by NATO guaranteeing Russia that NATO would not expand into Eastern Europe.

[ixulescu]

Ukriane is as corrupt as all hell. It's been the toyboy of the U.S since 1991 . Russia is corrupt as hell as well. But at least it has a face and fronts issues. Ukraine is a shadow government installed by foreigners in the aim to be aggressive against Russia. The leader of that regime happens to be a Jew.

Russia is orders of magnitude more corrupt than Ukraine. All Russian oligarchy is completely dependent on Putin's regime. Without Putin they're nothing. They can't even leave the sinking ship like the rats they are.

Btw, most Ukrainian corruption from the 90s and 2000s was sponsored by Russia so that it could acquire the power levers in Ukraine.

[Permafrost]

You seem to not have access to some important pieces of information. It is false that your "disproven contention" is "categorically false."

No. Baker's famous quote "Not one inch eastwards" refers to military equipment in West Germany, that it would not be moved into East Germany; this includes the ICBMs. Gorbachov confirmed this in his interview:

The interviewer asked why Gorbachev did not “insist that the promises made to you [Gorbachev]—particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East—be legally encoded?” Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years... The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.

The notion that NATO made a "pinky promise" to M.G. not to expand eastwards is a fairy tale. Even if it did happen, pinky promises are non-binding legally in international diplomacy... I hope you realize how cognitively challenged it is to expect otherwise.

As for the "self defense argument", it is no more than a rationalization. Ukraine, if inside NATO, would pose no additional threat than the one already posed by the Baltic states which border Russia and whose capitals are equidistant with Kiev in respect to Moscow.

I am not taking anyone's side here by the way, it is just empirically factual that Nato has been more consistent in their geopolitical strategy than Russia has.

[SilverKnight]

[Jana]

I changed my views about this invasion. It was supposed to be quick and relatively bloodless crushing of Ukraine and I was told most of Ukrainians (except western) will willingly accept Russian intrusion because well, they are brother nations.

Now I see ordinary Ukrainians simply don't want Russian rule. And yes, recruiting of Chechens and MENAs by Russia doesn't help.
This is not about NATO or USA or Ukraine's Jewish leadership.

It's about ordinary people defending their country. Russia didn't crush them quickly but is now slowly leveling Ukraine with big casualities for both sides and I can't support that.
Partition is still the best option, but I did change my views in favor of Ukrainian defenders rather much.

Most of Ukraine don't seem so Russia friendly at all like many wrote and I mistakenly believed it. And this war will cement Ukrainian identity for good.

[JosephK]

I changed my views about this invasion. It was supposed to be quick and relatively bloodless crushing of Ukraine and I was told most of Ukrainians (except western) will willingly accept Russian intrusion because well, they are brother nations.

Now I see ordinary Ukrainians simply don't want Russian rule. And yes, recruiting of Chechens and MENAs by Russia doesn't help.
This is not about NATO or USA or Ukraine's Jewish leadership.

It's about ordinary people defending their country. Russia didn't crush them quickly but is now slowly leveling Ukraine with big casualities for both sides and I can't support that.
Partition is still the best option, but I did change my views in favor of Ukrainian defenders rather much.

Most of Ukraine don't seem so Russia friendly at all like many wrote and I mistakenly believed it.

That's funny, with everything that's happened in the past two weeks, I've become more steadfastly pro-Russia. Zelensky's still the madman that brought this all on, and don't forget that when they tabulate "civilian" deaths, that also includes civilians who are shooting at Russians. I've been in war and I know how this works, and I know the kinds of lies that are perpetrated by all sides.

[Jana]

That's funny, with everything that's happened in the past two weeks, I've become more steadfastly pro-Russia. Zelensky's still the madman that brought this all on, and don't forget that when they tabulate "civilian" deaths, that also includes civilians who are shooting at Russians. I've been in war and I know how this works, and I know the kinds of lies that are perpetrated by all sides.

Propaganda war is part of every war, and everyone has right to it, especially weaker side. I think Zelensky is a scumbag, but don't care about him.

I simply changed opinion because now it is clear without doubt most of Ukraine is not pro Russian and are willing to resist Russian invasion.
That is very different than what we could read here and I fell for it, I admit.

I believed Ukrainian identity was not really solid but rather blurry and they (except western ukrainians) will accept to be with Russians if Russia flexes muscles.
It's simply not true.

Ukrainian identity seems as solid as any. They have right and wish to exist than. Otherwise they would not put up such resisstance and sacrifice against superior force.

[JosephK]

No. Baker's famous quote "Not one inch eastwards" refers to military equipment in West Germany, that it would not be moved into East Germany; this includes the ICBMs. Gorbachov confirmed this in his interview:



The notion that NATO made a "pinky promise" to M.G. not to expand eastwards is a fairy tale. Even if it did happen, pinky promises are non-binding legally in international diplomacy... I hope you realize how cognitively challenged it is to expect otherwise.

As for the "self defense argument", it is no more than a rationalization. Ukraine, if inside NATO, would pose no additional threat than the one already posed by the Baltic states which border Russia and whose capitals are equidistant with Kiev in respect to Moscow.

I am not taking anyone's side here by the way, it is just empirically factual that Nato has been more consistent in their geopolitical strategy than Russia has.

You failed to see my point regarding your use of the phrase "categorically false," and you continue to indicate your confusion regarding your opinion with fact, as well as the 'fact' that you are seeking from Mr. Putin's interpretation.