Russian forces cross Ukrainian border 22.02.2022 morning

[gixajo]

What I did was provide solid arguments. You can't answer them.



With an economy that is about the size of Spain and a military that would be easily crushed if it invaded a NATO nation. It doesn't matter what they want. What matters is what they can reasonably do. They're not stupid.

Putin initially wanted to join NATO. I guess that was his way of bringing back Russia/Soviet world power...

Ex-Nato head says Putin wanted to join alliance early on in his rule

Oh, noes.... look at me using sources for a belief instead of my feelings... I'm insane!



Thanks for the specifics.

You're certainly well informed. Maybe you should, like, get on youtube and listen to the supposed experts because you don't even know the basics.

Well you insist in delegitimizing my opinion by delegitimizing me(fixed i said "myself").

I think I missed some about some arguments that you had and I didn't, I will read that text again to see which arguments were exactly, because with all this personal attacks I forgot that this thread was about something more important than your desire to compete to quench your vanity in public.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Well you insist in delegitimizing my opinion by delegitimizing myself.

I think I missed some about some arguments that you had and I didn't, I will read that text again to see which arguments were exactly, because with all this personal attacks I forgot that this thread was about something more important than your desire to compete to quench your vanity in public.

You came at me first with your sarcastic response.

Of course I am retarded who doesn't know anything about what I'm talking about and think stupidly moved by intuitions and agendas, because I don´t see enough Youtube videos of experts and I am not Russian nor Ukrainian or American.

Then you get mad because I justifiably point out you don't know what you're talking about. I responded to your post with a detailed informed argument. Instead of getting an intelligent response I got a 'I'm not going to argue about who has the best sources blah blah blah..' while ignoring I had a detailed argument.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

I don´t rely on my feelings to give opinions or to create theories, I do not reject external contributions of information, but what I do not do is take opinions as data.

But I do not trust the data and information that is created at the same time that a conflict is taking place, much less data and information on the Internet.

I prefer to trust, or better, to base my opinions in what I have already learned through information and data on similar issues from the past that I already have learned (or lived).

It´s my version, my reading about that particular issue, based or not in other´s , but it´s mine, and not, is not based on "feelings", what you're doing saying that about me to discredit my opinion is the same thing JamesBond007 did to discredit yours by calling you anti-intellectual for using youtube videos instead more seious sources.

I've always had my eyes open, not just when I started getting into TA, and I try to have constructive discussions dealing with issues that I consider serious,in which at least, if we do not reach an agreement or any inquestinable truth, at least they help us to advance a little more towards it or just learn something, something that seems to be difficult to do here.

So you base your opinions on past events that differ in every way to today.

Here is some data you ignore: Russia has an economy the size of Spain. The Russian military doesn't have the capabilities to fight NATO.

The above is the objective reality. So your opinion is worthless because it references a past that is an impossibility in 2022 and the Russians/Putin are very well aware of this reality.

I don't need to discredit your opinion. You did so yourself with your response. I just shine a spotlight on it.

[gixajo]

What I did was provide solid arguments. You can't answer them.



With an economy that is about the size of Spain and a military that would be easily crushed if it invaded a NATO nation. It doesn't matter what they want. What matters is what they can reasonably do. They're not stupid.

Putin initially wanted to join NATO. I guess that was his way of bringing back Russia/Soviet world power...

Ex-Nato head says Putin wanted to join alliance early on in his rule

Oh, noes.... look at me using sources for a belief instead of my feelings... I'm insane!



Thanks for the specifics.

You're certainly well informed. Maybe you should, like, get on youtube and listen to the supposed experts because you don't even know the basics.

Well, I read your arguments.

I posted a link to the original agreements between Russia and NATO, just before being banned last time, if you find it, you can find more accurate information about "Russian trying to join NATO", that is not completelly true.

You will see why I say that is not totally true (so is not true at all) if you read that document and 2 others related to it. (some clues, one document is a European Union official document, and one was published before and the other after)

But well, if you don´t trust in what am I telling you because I'm just pretending to be smart to be above you for a matter of pride, keep trusting your experts, don´t look for any document.

As an expert on experts you seem to be...Do you think I could be expert on something?

I hope you will trust those 3 documents

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Well you insist in delegitimizing my opinion by delegitimizing myself.

I think I missed some about some arguments that you had and I didn't, I will read that text again to see which arguments were exactly, because with all this personal attacks I forgot that this thread was about something more important than your desire to compete to quench your vanity in public.

Yeah, here.

First, thanks for the history lesson but the Cold War is irrelevant here. This is a question of Russian national interest: a nation on their border. We're not talking about Russia trying to expand its interests in Central America, Africa, ME, etc. When there was a coup in Ukraine that placed a pro-US/NATO in power the Russians invaded Crimea because Crimea is an excellent launching pad for an invasion of Russia. It would be negligent for any country - whether there was a legitimate threat at the time or not - to allow a military pact that is openly antagonistic to have a launching pad into one's own nation if they're able to do something about it.

Russia is not a threat to the US. They don't care what we do on our side of the world. What they do care about is what happens near their borders for the same reason we would care if Russia or China supported a coup in Mexico that placed a government antagonistic to our own and then sent 'defensive missiles' that can easily be converted for offensive purposes; what do you think would be our response in such a scenario? There would be threats and if the threats weren't taken seriously there would be war in Mexico because no one likes missiles being pointed at them on their border. It kind of reminds one of events in the early 60s, doesn't it?

Secondly, you say "all this concerns you whether you like it or not" and then go on to say this might be a turning point for the US like it was for the Soviet Union when it collapsed. The premise is if we don't care about Ukraine (and Gerogia, I guess? What else? There is nothing else.) then the US could eventually collapse like the Soviet Union because... why? Ironically our economy is partially hurting because we care about Ukraine. Our sanctions on Russia are hurting us and have already caused political upheaval in some 3rd World nations and will continue to do so. It's making for a less politically stable world because of the sanctions we placed on Russia.

If the US government (Neo-Cons and Leftists, really; notice how Neo-Cons and the Left are on the same page regarding Russia) and their NATO lackeys had left Ukraine alone there wouldn't have even been a war. There wouldn't be conflict in Donbas. Russia wouldn't even be in Crimea because they wouldn't feel threatened. This all started with the coup in 2014. This all started with NATO/US going back on their word with Russia that they wouldn't spread east if they allowed East Germany to unite with West Germany.

So not caring about what happens in Ukraine benefited everyone including the Ukrainian people who have lost a generation of men because NATO uses them as a proxy against Russia because NATO needs a reason to exist and so they create reasons to exist.





If youtube isn't your medium of choice, then just read their articles. Maybe then you'll response would be relevant and insightful.

Have at it.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Well, I read your arguments.

I posted a link to the original agreements between Russia and NATO, just before being banned last time, if you find it, you can find more accurate information about "Russian trying to join NATO", that is not completelly true.

It's not in the original agreement. You didn't even read the article I posted. It's a high level official speaking about his convo with Putin, fool.

Bush Sr. promised NATO wouldn't move east. Bush Jr. is on video saying that is what his father promised if east and west Germany were allowed to unite to make Germany whole.

You will see why I say that is not totally true (so is not true at all) if you read that document and 2 others related to it. (some clues, one document is a European Union official document, and one was published before and the other after)

But well, if you don´t trust in what am I telling you because I'm just pretending to be smart to be above you for a matter of pride, keep trusting your experts, don´t look for any document.

As an expert on experts you seem to be...Do you think I could be expert on something?

I hope you will trust those 3 documents

You don't even know what I'm talking about.

[gixajo]

Yeah, here.



Have at it(or give me alone*in the original.

Every time I open my mouth in this thread you do the same thing, next time go back and reread our posts with similar side discussions and please spare me your discussions about experts and how little I know about everything and that I only give my opinion based on in feelings.

About the topic, we can summarize that you don´t think that the recent Historic past of Russia has no influence on what happens in Ukraine and that what happens in Ukraine is not going to influence the USA at all.That´s right?

I say that recent History of Russia has also influence on what is happening and that what happens in ukraine will influence (is already influencing and has influenced) the USA in many aspects, and maybe can also in the worst scenario change in an unquestionable and definitive way the USA.

[gixajo]

You don't even know what I'm talking about.

You are funny

Sorry... what does all this have to do with the original discussion that the USA is not affected at all by what happens in the Ukraine and that the decisions of Russia have nothing to do with the mentality inherited from the Soviet era and its fall?

Could it be that I need to sleep or maybe it's you that don't follow any argumentative thread, it seems that you lose concentration, I don't even know why I try to adapt to your changes of direction.

You look like a tough boxer. Have you practiced any martial art other than wrestling? have you practiced MMA?

[gixajo]

I'm sorry Colonel, but I've arranged to go for a walk, I let you alone.

[Loki]

The guy openly call to the murder of ukrainians. He is a legitimate target for me. A political commissar who fuel and back the war .

Are you some sort of terrorist?