Page 1 of 23 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 228

Thread: How can “mainland” Greeks possibly claim ancient Greek genetic similarity (bonus Lazaridis et al.)?

  1. 03-02-2022, 11:24 AM #1
    kingmob
    kingmob non č connesso
    Banned Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    3:28
    Country
    European Union
    Gender
    Posts
    1,957
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,920
    Given: 1,564

    4 Not allowed!

    Default How can “mainland” Greeks possibly claim ancient Greek genetic similarity (bonus Lazaridis et al.)?

    To cut a long story short, let’s begin with the community’s K13 database:

    Mycenean:

    Spoiler!



    Jews, Greeks islands and South Italians seem pretty close, not a single “mainland” type in the top 25, with the exception of Tsakonia and Deep Mani (endangered species of the Peloponnese).


    Same story with Helladic_EBA:

    Spoiler!



    “B-b-b-ut mah Logkas Doric Greek and my northern Greek nativity!”

    Spoiler!



    Well, how about that, it looks like Albanians and North Macedonians, and even the Torbesh (!), can claim better nativity to Bronze Age Northern Greece than the “Greek mainland” types. If Doric Greeks end up plotting like that, then it's no brainer that both Albanians and North Macedonians have a better claim to ancient Macedonians (essentially a Doric group) than modern "mainland" Greek types do! At least, on an autosomals similarity level (not commenting on haplos, obviously).


    “B-b-b-ut mah Lazaridis’ paper, K13 don’t count! Hurr … dur …”

    Here’s where it gets interesting, folks.

    Please, do keep notes, you can thank me later.

    Here, you can find all Reich labs samples published (and some un-published), you can d/l the 1240+HO file and open it with a text editor.

    You can then proceed to confirm that all modern Greek samples that were used to show similarity to Myceneans are either from Athens, Thessaloniki, or from Crete. The two biggest (and most-mixed) urban centres, plus the island that already shows similarity on the PCA.

    Out of curiosity, I ran a simple neolithic model for a Thessaloniki sample, and what do you know? The sample comes close to the results of an island type (around 8% Steppe and 21.1% Iran_Ganj Dareh(!!!)). Obviously, a mixed individual that was picked based on their projected proximity to the Islands and thus to the Mycenean target for his paper?

    Spoiler!


    Sneaky, imo, but who knows, maybe Lazaridis panicked after checking some "true native mainland" types and found abysmally low correlation?

    Maybe I am wrong, and someone can cross-reference it and correct it (multiple set of eyes better than one), but somehow I don't think I am.


    To be continued in the ethnography section ....


    All comments and input welcome and appreciated!
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  2. 03-02-2022, 11:38 AM #2
    kingmob
    kingmob non č connesso
    Banned Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    3:28
    Country
    European Union
    Gender
    Posts
    1,957
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,920
    Given: 1,564

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    It seems to me that modern Greeks should be grateful for the (100 year old, now) influx of Anatolian Greeks that pushed them further South-East and brought them close again to their supposed ancestors.

    Imagine the embarrassment with such papers, otherwise!
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  3. 03-02-2022, 05:18 PM #3
    Ayetooey
    Ayetooey non č connesso
    Inactive
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"
     Ayetooey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Indo-European
    Country
    North-Korea
    Y-DNA
    I2a1b-PH908
    mtDNA
    J2b1
    Taxonomy
    Alpinid
    Hero
    Jake Gyllenhaal
    Gender
    Posts
    8,694
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 11,113
    Given: 10,158

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Could you not model mainlanders as Logkas Doric Greek + medieval Anatolian + slav?
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  4. 03-02-2022, 08:39 PM #4
    Arzanene
    Arzanene non č connesso
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Last Online
    06-24-2023 @ 09:56 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Armeno-Anatolic
    Ethnicity
    Armenian from Iran
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Posts
    93
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 69
    Given: 8

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    The mycenean samples do not have any indo European mixture so mainland greeks cluster closer to south Italians and other Balkan peoples because they have the same ratio of Indo European, east med, Neolithic anatolian mixture.

    The bronze age invasions added a lot of indo euro mixture to the region probably, if the mycenean samples are all uniform.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  5. 03-03-2022, 04:53 AM #5
    kingmob
    kingmob non č connesso
    Banned Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    3:28
    Country
    European Union
    Gender
    Posts
    1,957
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,920
    Given: 1,564

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ayetooey View Post
    Could you not model mainlanders as Logkas Doric Greek + medieval Anatolian + slav?
    In qpAdm?

    There's no such samples in Reich 1240K (see OP) but I'll try it with my dad, I don't think it will work, though, will keep you posted.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  6. 03-03-2022, 08:03 AM #6
    kingmob
    kingmob non č connesso
    Banned Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    3:28
    Country
    European Union
    Gender
    Posts
    1,957
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,920
    Given: 1,564

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ayetooey View Post
    model mainlanders as Logkas Doric Greek + medieval Anatolian + slav?
    I can model my father (greeknorthernthrace in left) as Logkas+Polish but with very high std. errors (above 10%). I can also do it with 59% RoopkundB + 41% Polish but the p-value is barely above 0.06 and the std.error at 7.2% so it's a bit of a meh shaky model.

    For what is worth:

    Code:
    qpAdm: parameter file: parqpadm.txt
### THE INPUT PARAMETERS
##PARAMETER NAME: VALUE
fstatsname: fstatsa.txt
popleft: left.txt
popright: right.txt
details: YES
## qpAdm version: 1520
seed: 2004977519
 *** recommended that inbreed be explicitly set ***
inbreed set NO

left pops:
greeknorthernthrace
India_RoopkundB
Polish.DG

right pops:
Mbuti.DG
Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG
China_Tianyuan
Goyet_Neanderthal.SG
Russia_Sunghir3.SG
Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic
Russia_MA1_HG.SG
Georgia_Satsurblia.SG
Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG
Papuan.DG
Iran_GanjDareh_N
Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya
Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic
Turkey_Epipaleolithic
ONG.SG

codimension 1
f4info: 
f4rank: 1 dof:     13 chisq:    21.521 tail:         0.0632483498 dofdiff:     15 chisqdiff:   -21.521 taildiff:                    1
B:
          scale     1.000 
Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG     0.851 
 China_Tianyuan    -0.369 
Goyet_Neanderthal.SG     0.491 
Russia_Sunghir3.SG     0.925 
Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic     0.455 
Russia_MA1_HG.SG     1.665 
Georgia_Satsurblia.SG     0.250 
Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG     0.676 
      Papuan.DG     0.676 
Iran_GanjDareh_N    -0.946 
Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya    -0.897 
Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic     2.354 
Turkey_Epipaleolithic    -0.781 
         ONG.SG     0.482 
A:
          scale  1363.128 
India_RoopkundB    -0.806 
      Polish.DG     1.162 


full rank
f4info: 
f4rank: 2 dof:      0 chisq:     0.000 tail:                    1 dofdiff:     13 chisqdiff:    21.521 taildiff:         0.0632483498
B:
          scale  1561.257  1007.133 
Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG    -0.025     1.479 
 China_Tianyuan    -0.182    -0.794 
Goyet_Neanderthal.SG    -0.766     0.286 
Russia_Sunghir3.SG    -0.576     1.103 
Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic    -0.450     0.310 
Russia_MA1_HG.SG    -1.422     1.461 
Georgia_Satsurblia.SG    -1.046    -0.507 
Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG    -0.761     0.413 
      Papuan.DG    -1.172     0.141 
Iran_GanjDareh_N     1.744    -0.112 
Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya     1.195    -0.551 
Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic    -1.794     2.210 
Turkey_Epipaleolithic     0.147    -1.056 
         ONG.SG     0.252     0.945 
A:
          scale     1.414     1.414 
India_RoopkundB     1.414     0.000 
      Polish.DG     0.000     1.414 


best coefficients:     0.591     0.409 
totmean:      0.591     0.409 
boot mean:     0.589     0.411 
      std. errors:     0.074     0.074 

error covariance (* 1,000,000)
      5420      -5420 
     -5420       5420 


summ: greeknorthernthrace 2      0.063248     0.589     0.411       5420      -5420       5420 

    fixed pat  wt  dof     chisq       tail prob
           00  0    13    21.521       0.0632483     0.591     0.409 
           01  1    14    58.522     2.12765e-07     1.000     0.000 
           10  1    14    73.282     4.88232e-10     0.000     1.000 
best pat:           00        0.0632483              -  -
best pat:           01      2.12765e-07  chi(nested):    37.001 p-value for nested model:     1.18076e-09

coeffs:     0.591     0.409 

## dscore:: f_4(Base, Fit, Rbase, right2)
## genstat:: f_4(Base, Fit, right1, right2)

details:      India_RoopkundB  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG    -0.000016   -0.036984
details:            Polish.DG  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG     0.001468    2.482049
dscore:  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG f4:     0.000592 Z:     1.307302

details:      India_RoopkundB       China_Tianyuan    -0.000117   -0.229357
details:            Polish.DG       China_Tianyuan    -0.000788   -1.250094
dscore:       China_Tianyuan f4:    -0.000391 Z:    -0.764359

details:      India_RoopkundB Goyet_Neanderthal.SG    -0.000491   -1.532474
details:            Polish.DG Goyet_Neanderthal.SG     0.000284    0.754988
dscore: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG f4:    -0.000174 Z:    -0.562277

details:      India_RoopkundB   Russia_Sunghir3.SG    -0.000369   -0.709027
details:            Polish.DG   Russia_Sunghir3.SG     0.001095    1.634705
dscore:   Russia_Sunghir3.SG f4:     0.000230 Z:     0.430126

details:      India_RoopkundB Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic    -0.000288   -0.723772
details:            Polish.DG Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic     0.000307    0.633023
dscore: Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic f4:    -0.000044 Z:    -0.112309

details:      India_RoopkundB     Russia_MA1_HG.SG    -0.000911   -1.663113
details:            Polish.DG     Russia_MA1_HG.SG     0.001451    2.174878
dscore:     Russia_MA1_HG.SG f4:     0.000056 Z:     0.102400

details:      India_RoopkundB Georgia_Satsurblia.SG    -0.000670   -1.286273
details:            Polish.DG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG    -0.000503   -0.762521
dscore: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG f4:    -0.000602 Z:    -1.132783

details:      India_RoopkundB Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG    -0.000488   -1.148716
details:            Polish.DG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG     0.000410    0.776908
dscore: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG f4:    -0.000120 Z:    -0.283144

details:      India_RoopkundB            Papuan.DG    -0.000751   -1.877100
details:            Polish.DG            Papuan.DG     0.000140    0.273545
dscore:            Papuan.DG f4:    -0.000386 Z:    -0.938335

details:      India_RoopkundB     Iran_GanjDareh_N     0.001117    3.073585
details:            Polish.DG     Iran_GanjDareh_N    -0.000111   -0.240408
dscore:     Iran_GanjDareh_N f4:     0.000614 Z:     1.662260

details:      India_RoopkundB Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya     0.000766    1.953718
details:            Polish.DG Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya    -0.000547   -1.176844
dscore: Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya f4:     0.000228 Z:     0.587361

details:      India_RoopkundB Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic    -0.001149   -2.944649
details:            Polish.DG Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic     0.002194    4.416657
dscore: Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic f4:     0.000219 Z:     0.552512

details:      India_RoopkundB Turkey_Epipaleolithic     0.000094    0.180657
details:            Polish.DG Turkey_Epipaleolithic    -0.001049   -1.539305
dscore: Turkey_Epipaleolithic f4:    -0.000374 Z:    -0.691370

details:      India_RoopkundB               ONG.SG     0.000162    0.426978
details:            Polish.DG               ONG.SG     0.000938    2.084361
dscore:               ONG.SG f4:     0.000479 Z:     1.290878

gendstat:             Mbuti.DG  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG     1.307
gendstat:             Mbuti.DG       China_Tianyuan    -0.764
gendstat:             Mbuti.DG Goyet_Neanderthal.SG    -0.562
gendstat:             Mbuti.DG   Russia_Sunghir3.SG     0.430
gendstat:             Mbuti.DG Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic    -0.112
gendstat:             Mbuti.DG     Russia_MA1_HG.SG     0.102
gendstat:             Mbuti.DG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG    -1.133
gendstat:             Mbuti.DG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG    -0.283
gendstat:             Mbuti.DG            Papuan.DG    -0.938
gendstat:             Mbuti.DG     Iran_GanjDareh_N     1.662
gendstat:             Mbuti.DG Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya     0.587
gendstat:             Mbuti.DG Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic     0.553
gendstat:             Mbuti.DG Turkey_Epipaleolithic    -0.691
gendstat:             Mbuti.DG               ONG.SG     1.291
gendstat:  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG       China_Tianyuan    -1.768
gendstat:  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Goyet_Neanderthal.SG    -1.464
gendstat:  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG   Russia_Sunghir3.SG    -0.622
gendstat:  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic    -1.300
gendstat:  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG     Russia_MA1_HG.SG    -0.914
gendstat:  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG    -2.026
gendstat:  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG    -1.488
gendstat:  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG            Papuan.DG    -2.106
gendstat:  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG     Iran_GanjDareh_N     0.049
gendstat:  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya    -0.721
gendstat:  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic    -0.786
gendstat:  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Turkey_Epipaleolithic    -1.645
gendstat:  Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG               ONG.SG    -0.243
gendstat:       China_Tianyuan Goyet_Neanderthal.SG     0.376
gendstat:       China_Tianyuan   Russia_Sunghir3.SG     1.054
gendstat:       China_Tianyuan Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic     0.680
gendstat:       China_Tianyuan     Russia_MA1_HG.SG     0.753
gendstat:       China_Tianyuan Georgia_Satsurblia.SG    -0.338
gendstat:       China_Tianyuan Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG     0.558
gendstat:       China_Tianyuan            Papuan.DG     0.011
gendstat:       China_Tianyuan     Iran_GanjDareh_N     2.009
gendstat:       China_Tianyuan Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya     1.155
gendstat:       China_Tianyuan Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic     1.227
gendstat:       China_Tianyuan Turkey_Epipaleolithic     0.029
gendstat:       China_Tianyuan               ONG.SG     1.881
gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG   Russia_Sunghir3.SG     0.671
gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic     0.259
gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG     Russia_MA1_HG.SG     0.373
gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG    -0.716
gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG     0.107
gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG            Papuan.DG    -0.435
gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG     Iran_GanjDareh_N     1.713
gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya     0.833
gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic     0.819
gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Turkey_Epipaleolithic    -0.328
gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG               ONG.SG     1.392
gendstat:   Russia_Sunghir3.SG Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic    -0.538
gendstat:   Russia_Sunghir3.SG     Russia_MA1_HG.SG    -0.282
gendstat:   Russia_Sunghir3.SG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG    -1.297
gendstat:   Russia_Sunghir3.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG    -0.649
gendstat:   Russia_Sunghir3.SG            Papuan.DG    -1.166
gendstat:   Russia_Sunghir3.SG     Iran_GanjDareh_N     0.734
gendstat:   Russia_Sunghir3.SG Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya    -0.004
gendstat:   Russia_Sunghir3.SG Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic    -0.023
gendstat:   Russia_Sunghir3.SG Turkey_Epipaleolithic    -0.981
gendstat:   Russia_Sunghir3.SG               ONG.SG     0.477
gendstat: Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic     Russia_MA1_HG.SG     0.195
gendstat: Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic Georgia_Satsurblia.SG    -1.072
gendstat: Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG    -0.175
gendstat: Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic            Papuan.DG    -0.769
gendstat: Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic     Iran_GanjDareh_N     1.793
gendstat: Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya     0.715
gendstat: Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic     0.729
gendstat: Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic Turkey_Epipaleolithic    -0.624
gendstat: Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic               ONG.SG     1.269
gendstat:     Russia_MA1_HG.SG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG    -1.038
gendstat:     Russia_MA1_HG.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG    -0.321
gendstat:     Russia_MA1_HG.SG            Papuan.DG    -0.818
gendstat:     Russia_MA1_HG.SG     Iran_GanjDareh_N     1.095
gendstat:     Russia_MA1_HG.SG Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya     0.303
gendstat:     Russia_MA1_HG.SG Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic     0.333
gendstat:     Russia_MA1_HG.SG Turkey_Epipaleolithic    -0.677
gendstat:     Russia_MA1_HG.SG               ONG.SG     0.790
gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG     0.873
gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG            Papuan.DG     0.402
gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG     Iran_GanjDareh_N     2.539
gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya     1.623
gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic     1.604
gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Turkey_Epipaleolithic     0.366
gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG               ONG.SG     2.052
gendstat: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG            Papuan.DG    -0.662
gendstat: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG     Iran_GanjDareh_N     1.784
gendstat: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya     0.753
gendstat: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic     0.795
gendstat: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG Turkey_Epipaleolithic    -0.452
gendstat: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG               ONG.SG     1.571
gendstat:            Papuan.DG     Iran_GanjDareh_N     2.446
gendstat:            Papuan.DG Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya     1.317
gendstat:            Papuan.DG Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic     1.513
gendstat:            Papuan.DG Turkey_Epipaleolithic     0.023
gendstat:            Papuan.DG               ONG.SG     2.360
gendstat:     Iran_GanjDareh_N Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya    -0.998
gendstat:     Iran_GanjDareh_N Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic    -1.022
gendstat:     Iran_GanjDareh_N Turkey_Epipaleolithic    -1.897
gendstat:     Iran_GanjDareh_N               ONG.SG    -0.348
gendstat: Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic    -0.023
gendstat: Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya Turkey_Epipaleolithic    -1.177
gendstat: Russia_Caucasus_Maikop_Novosvobodnaya               ONG.SG     0.590
gendstat: Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic Turkey_Epipaleolithic    -1.254
gendstat: Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic               ONG.SG     0.666
gendstat: Turkey_Epipaleolithic               ONG.SG     1.642

##end of qpAdm:        2.227 seconds cpu        0.827 Mbytes in use
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  7. 03-03-2022, 08:09 AM #7
    Flashball
    Flashball non č connesso
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 11:42 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    French Alpinoide
    Ethnicity
    European
    Country
    France
    Taxonomy
    French Alpinoide
    Gender
    Posts
    1,615
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,276
    Given: 1,172

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arzanene View Post
    The mycenean samples do not have any indo European mixture so mainland greeks cluster closer to south Italians and other Balkan peoples because they have the same ratio of Indo European, east med, Neolithic anatolian mixture.

    The bronze age invasions added a lot of indo euro mixture to the region probably, if the mycenean samples are all uniform.
    Why they don't clust with sardinians (central mostly)?

    And look at the distance...

    "Distance to: Greece_BA_Mycenaean
    11.09089266 Jew_Italy
    12.58823657 Italian_Calabria
    12.77117066 Jew_Sephardi
    13.33522403 Greek_Ikaria
    13.43077809 Greek_Andros
    13.74573752 Greek_Rhodes
    13.80313370 Maltese
    13.83204251 Greek_Deep_Mani
    14.13842636 Greek_Kalymnos
    14.31002446 Greek_Nisyros
    14.35136927 Italian_Sicily
    14.45389567 Greek_Symi
    14.71669460 Italian_Campania
    14.90227835 Greek_Dodecanese
    14.91801931 Greek_Karpathos
    14.95787752 Jew_Ashkenazi
    15.06763087 Italian_Apulia
    15.25464192 Greek_Chios
    15.27562765 Greek_Tsakonia
    15.41751926 Greek_Kythera
    15.46761779 Greek_Kos
    15.67146132 Italian_Molise
    16.07262580 Greek_Cyprus
    16.17418932 Greek_Crete
    16.30398418 Italian_Abruzzo"

    11.00 is not very close, it's not a HUGE distance, but this is not "very close"...

    Also you should use Global 25, IMO, but Mycenaean >>>

    Target: GRC_Mycenaean:I9041
    Distance: 0.0249% / 0.02492546
    64.5 TUR_Barcin_N
    16.1 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    13.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    2.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
    1.6 Levant_PPNB
    0.9 Han
    0.5 Yoruba
    0.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

    Target: GRC_Mycenaean:I9033
    Distance: 0.0382% / 0.03823465
    60.8 TUR_Barcin_N
    19.1 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    14.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    1.7 Dinka
    1.2 Gambian
    1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728
    0.7 WHG
    0.5 ETH_4500BP
    0.3 Han
    0.1 MAR_Taforalt

    Target: GRC_Mycenaean:I9010
    Distance: 0.0313% / 0.03132711
    69.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    13.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    6.2 Levant_PPNB
    5.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    2.9 WHG
    2.1 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    0.8 Jarawa
    0.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728

    Target: GRC_Mycenaean:I9006
    Distance: 0.0316% / 0.03163134
    69.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    19.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    8.5 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    2.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    0.2 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
    0.1 Nganassan
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  8. 03-03-2022, 08:11 AM #8
    Muffinman
    Muffinman non č connesso
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Last Online
    04-12-2022 @ 08:09 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Hellenic, Thracian, Illyrian
    Ethnicity
    Greek
    Country
    Greece
    Gender
    Posts
    44
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 19
    Given: 36

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arzanene View Post
    The mycenean samples do not have any indo European mixture so mainland greeks cluster closer to south Italians and other Balkan peoples because they have the same ratio of Indo European, east med, Neolithic anatolian mixture.

    The bronze age invasions added a lot of indo euro mixture to the region probably, if the mycenean samples are all uniform.
    I'm pretty sure OP is just a sockpuppet troll so I'd just ignore him. Yes, Mycenaeans did not have much steppe, but they did not have any natufian either. They were largely a CHG + EEF hybrid so naturally they plot closest to Southern Italians and Greek islanders but with an insanely large distance.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  9. 03-03-2022, 08:20 AM #9
    kingmob
    kingmob non č connesso
    Banned Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    3:28
    Country
    European Union
    Gender
    Posts
    1,957
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,920
    Given: 1,564

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Muffinman View Post
    I'm pretty sure OP is just a sockpuppet troll so I'd just ignore him. Yes, Mycenaeans did not have much steppe, but they did not have any natufian either. They were largely a CHG + EEF hybrid so naturally they plot closest to Southern Italians and Greek islanders but with an insanely large distance.
    Ι am neither a sockpuppet nor a troll. Everything I posted is verifiable by anyone, since

    a) the K13 project is not mine nor do I have any control over it,
    b) you only need a notepad/text editor to check the validity of my claim about the Laziridis' samples by going through the 1240+HO.ind file from the Reich Labs website, which again is not mine (obviously, lol) and again I have no control over it.

    Yet, you make accusations with no arguments as a back up, other than ad-homs.

    As such, your arguments are null and void, just another salty 'mainland' type seething.

    Better luck, next time.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  10. 03-03-2022, 08:21 AM #10
    Flashball
    Flashball non č connesso
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 11:42 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    French Alpinoide
    Ethnicity
    European
    Country
    France
    Taxonomy
    French Alpinoide
    Gender
    Posts
    1,615
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,276
    Given: 1,172

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Muffinman View Post
    I'm pretty sure OP is just a sockpuppet troll so I'd just ignore him. Yes, Mycenaeans did not have much steppe, but they did not have any natufian either. They were largely a CHG + EEF hybrid so naturally they plot closest to Southern Italians and Greek islanders but with an insanely large distance.


    GRC_Mycenaean:I9006,0.119514,0.160454,-0.006788,-0.068476,0.014464,-0.03514,-0.003055,-0.006923,-0.002863,0.050115,0.004384,0.015137,-0.009366,0.00289,-0.019815,-0.005304,0.024643,0.007601,0.020992,-0.000375,-0.007487,-0.012365,-0.010969,-0.000602,-0.001796
    GRC_Mycenaean:I9010,0.110408,0.160454,-0.015462,-0.071383,0.029544,-0.038487,-0.003525,0.004154,0.013499,0.056129,0.018025,0.017 235,-0.00223,-0.00234,-0.023208,-0.005038,0.031553,0.003421,0.005908,-0.004002,-0.006613,0.003215,-0.016145,-0.007109,-0.003113
    GRC_Mycenaean:I9033,0.091058,0.150298,-0.004148,-0.050388,0.022773,-0.013387,0.007285,-0.006692,0.003068,0.041003,-0.003573,0.019333,-0.020218,0.005505,-0.006515,-0.026518,0.00678,-0.003167,0.012193,-0.008629,-0.002995,-0.006306,-0.000616,0.005904,0.006945
    GRC_Mycenaean:I9041,0.110408,0.15436,-0.006034,-0.068476,0.020004,-0.021475,-0.00282,0.000923,0.007976,0.042097,0.003248,0.0160 36,-0.019326,-0.008533,-0.016015,-0.002387,0.021122,0.006588,0.010182,-0.002876,-0.006364,0.016199,0.001356,0.006386,-0.00491
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
Page 1 of 23 1234511 ... LastLast
« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Scientists claim Ancient Greeks travelled to Canada and set up colonies to mine gold
    By wvwvw in forum Archaeology
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-16-2022, 09:06 PM
  2. Are Greek Islanders more related to Armenians/Iranians than Mainland Greeks?
    By Avicii86 in forum Ethno-Cultural Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-22-2020, 07:06 PM
  3. Guess which of these genetic results are Sicilian, mainland Greek, and Aegean islander.
    By Sikeliot in forum Autosomal DNA
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-20-2018, 01:32 AM
  4. Greek mainland/islands genetic distance is more blurred than I thought?
    By Sikeliot in forum Autosomal DNA
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 07-01-2018, 02:47 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Forum Rules