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Thread: Why do some Romanian people claim Romania wasn't part of Ottoman Empire?

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    Default Why do some Romanian people claim Romania wasn't part of Ottoman Empire?

    I find it odd. If I look at maps of Ottoman Empire at its peak, it includes Wallachia and Moldavia.
    Last edited by Universe; 03-10-2022 at 07:22 PM.

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    Because calling each other Turkish rapebaby is a casual pastime in Balkans

    You can find these intellectual discussions on various forums all over the web

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    They were vassals, but Romania didn't exist at this time, only since 19. century.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hektor12 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie View Post
    They were vassals, but Romania didn't exist at this time, only since 19. century.
    Romania was founded in 1859, and had been part of Ottoman Empire until 1878 (or had been under Ottoman influence until 1878, depending on your beliefs)
    It had different status than parts of the empire that weren't vassals, but we can really say "Romania wasn't a part of Ottoman Empire"? They were autonomous parts of the empire, meaning they paid tribute to the empire and had no say over their foreign policy. Ottomans dictated Romanians' foreign policy. Because of this Romanian people contributed lots of soldiers to Ottoman military campaigns (they fought on Ottoman side). As far as I understood these vassals were hostages of Ottomans. Catalonia also has autonomy but it's still part of Spain.
    Last edited by Universe; 03-10-2022 at 04:03 PM.

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    https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...sal-state.html
    Characteristics of Vassal States

    Although similar in many ways, a vassal state has many characteristics that distinguish it from a tributary state, protectorate, or associated state.

    • It does not enjoy full sovereignty
    • Part of a larger state or empire
    • Has a local ruler or king
    • Secondary to the more powerful state
    • Rules independently in its own area
    • The vassal actively makes decisions on behalf of the vassal state
    • Enjoys protection and security from the dominant state
    • Provides military assistance to the powerful state

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    Quote Originally Posted by Universe View Post
    Romania was founded in 1859, and had been part of Ottoman Empire until 1878.
    It had different status than parts of the empire that weren't vassals, but we can really say "Romania wasn't a part of Ottoman Empire"? They were autonomous parts of the empire, meaning they paid tribute to the empire and had no say over their foreign policy. Ottomans dictated Romanians' foreign policy. Because of this Romanian people contributed lots of soldiers to Ottoman military campaigns (they fought on Ottoman side). As far as I understood these vassals were hostages of Ottomans. Catalonia also has autonomy but it's still part of Spain.
    Vassal means "a loose part" basically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Universe View Post
    Characteristics of Vassal States

    It does not enjoy full sovereignty
    Part of a larger state or empire
    Has a local ruler or king
    Secondary to the more powerful state
    Rules independently in its own area
    The vassal actively makes decisions on behalf of the vassal state

    Enjoys protection and security from the dominant state
    Provides military assistance to the powerful state
    Emphasis is mine.

    IMO the vassal only status meant a notably less internal influence of Ottomans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Universe View Post
    I find it odd. If I look at maps of Ottoman Empire at its peak, it includs Wallachia and Moldavia.
    Hungary was part of the Ottoman Empire because it was made into an Ottoman province, and had Ottoman administration. Wallachia and Moldova never did.

    Wallachia and Moldova had their own laws, ruling class, and military. Some of the laws were in direct conflict with the Ottoman laws. It was forbidden to be Muslim in Wallachia and Moldova. If you were a Muslim, you were caught, enslaved and sent to a monastery for re-conversion. Another example: Ottomans could not buy real estate in Wallachia and Moldova. They had to do it through Armenian middlemen (since they were Christian). Ottomans could trade, and had a right to pass through the country, but if they wanted to settle in Wallachia or Moldova they had to convert. Hence, there were no mosques in the two principalities.

    Saying that Wallachia and Moldova were part of Ottoman Empire is idiotic. It's like saying that Romania was part of the Soviet Union. No, Romania was not part of the Soviet Union. It was an "ally" of the Soviet Union, but not a great one. The same can be said about the relationship between the Wallachia, Moldova and the Ottoman Empire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ixulescu View Post
    Hungary was part of the Ottoman Empire because it was made into an Ottoman province, and had Ottoman administration. Wallachia and Moldova never did.

    Wallachia and Moldova had their own laws, ruling class, and military. Some of the laws were in direct conflict with the Ottoman laws. It was forbidden to be Muslim in Wallachia and Moldova. If you were a Muslim, you were caught, enslaved and sent to a monastery for re-conversion. Another example: Ottomans could not buy real estate in Wallachia and Moldova. They had to do it through Armenian middlemen (since they were Christian). Ottomans could trade, and had a right to pass through the country, but if they wanted to settle in Wallachia or Moldova they had to convert. Hence, there were no mosques in the two principalities.

    Saying that Wallachia and Moldova were part of Ottoman Empire is idiotic. It's like saying that Romania was part of the Soviet Union. No, Romania was not part of the Soviet Union. It was an "ally" of the Soviet Union, but not a great one. The same can be said about the relationship between the Wallachia, Moldova and the Ottoman Empire.
    The existence of an event called "Romanian war of independence" where Romania gained its independence from the Ottoman Empire gave me the impression Romania was part of the empire. (It's called the same way in Romanian). Such wars usually happen when people want to secede from a larger empire.
    Btw northern part of Hungary had been Ottoman vassal, although only for 3 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princi..._Upper_Hungary
    Last edited by Universe; 03-10-2022 at 07:54 PM.

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