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Thread: What are your opinions of race denialism?

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    Default What are your opinions of race denialism?

    I’d like to see peoples opinions of this here first before sharing my own.

    Race denialism is what it sounds like, basically the denial that race exists/is real, the notion/idea/belief that race doesn’t actually exist, is a false concept, is pseudoscience created by ignorant & racist people that serves to divide society etc.

    I’d share a Wikipedia or dictionary definition of the term “race denialism” here but I can’t seem to find any online, so I had to explain what it is above. Shouldn’t there be a Wikipedia on race denialism already?

    The term & concept of race is often considered politically incorrect nowadays (if you don’t know what that means, look it up).

    In some forums I’ve been on, I’ve often been criticised & corrected for talking about race, “correcting me” often involves explaining that race doesn’t exist, & I’ve sometimes been told by moderators there not to talk about/mention it because it can cause problems & fights among people even if I didn’t intend it to.

    There seems to be a spectrum of race denial, with some people more to less supportive of it than others.

    Race denialists seem to acknowledge variation in skin, hair & eye color & hair type, probably because those things are impossible to deny, but that seems to be as far as they’re willing to go, & they seem to claim that superficial variation doesn’t qualify as race. A lot of them often like to say that “we’re all one race, the human race”.

    I’ve attached a few links to the etymology (origin) of the term “race” below. It looks like the term “race” that refers to distinct groups of people originated in the late 16th century (1500’s), around the time Europeans begun colonising & having contact with other “races” overseas.
    I think it was always a very broad term & concept for physical variation, it was usually used very generically, unless say by scientists, who tended to be more specific in determining what constitutes a race.

    I can’t seem to find out when exactly race denialism arose. I want to say that it had its origins in the 1960’s civil rights movement. It seems that before that, race was generally universally accepted as true/real.

    The classical physical anthropologists of the 19th & 20th centuries certainly seem to have believed in races. I think I’ve noticed that physical anthropology books seem to have started to have stopped being produced/published in the 1970’s, maybe a few came out in the 1980’s (I can only think of Carleton Coon’s book “Racial Adaptations” that was posthumously published in 1982), but by the 1990’s there didn’t seem to be any physical anthropology books published anymore & it was clear then that the era of physical anthropology, that is, the study of human races & variation, was over.

    So maybe that suggests that race denialism started becoming widespread in the 1970’s, which is also when the terms “negro” & “Indian” for Native Americans started to decline, & when colored people started having more rights in America.

    What is the future of physical anthropology, that is, the study of human races & physical variation? Is it over/doomed? Could it ever make a comeback?

    Nowadays it seems that the terms “ethnicity” & “background” are being increasingly preferred & mandatory over “race”. In fact it’s becoming increasingly discouraged to talk about variation in physical features among populations other than skin color & hair type, again probably because those things are impossible to deny, & even then probably only when discussing certain relevant subjects, otherwise if you do it causally people might start thinking that something is wrong with you & that your racist in some way, something that’s frustrating to me as someone who is interested in topics regarding it like science, human evolution, history etc.

    The thing about ethnicity vs race is that race is a broader category than ethnicity, numerous ethnicities can be part of the same race.

    The only area where race seems to be acknowledged, where it may already be called “ethnicity” & “background” instead, is in forensics & law enforcement, & maybe archeology too, because they often need to identify victims & suspects.
    I can’t really think of any other area where race is acknowledged.

    Is race denialism ever likely to decrease & maybe replaced with race acknowledgement?

    https://www.etymonline.com/word/race

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hist..._race_concepts

    Something I’m wondering, if we can agree that the term “race” basically simply means physical variation in phenotype based on geography/geographic ancestry, then doesn’t it basically exist, whether it’s known by the term “race” or any other term? & if it does, is it really something so bad?

    Have a good day.
    Last edited by Homo Insapiens; 03-22-2022 at 04:45 PM.

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    The only thing I'll give to race denialists is that we do need to revise some of the classical racial categories a little bit, and maybe add some new parts to the theory of race. I don't think they care about that though. Right now I think, ironically, that the out-of-africa theory and it's layout is very close to a modern racial cladogram. And in the end all the original racial scientist were trying to do was categorise human populations into the best possible fit "big group". I think a new, modern racial theory would have to include the concept of racial mixing as a core part, considering just how many very old populations are the result of scientifically acknowledged and identified groups that and branched out earlier. Technically even Europeans have admixture from East Eurasia due to the ANE component, but that doesn't mean the West Eurasian ancestral component, which constitutes 98% or so of Europeans and 80-90% of MENA, isn't clearly it's own unique racial/ancestral admixture that quite clearly aligns with what the older racial theories defined as "Caucasoid".

    I think an updated and improved racial theory that involved genetics would be an extremely useful metric for categorizing the world. The denial of race itself, which was clearly just a way of understanding and defining the world as observed, is ridiculous. Modern day genetic studies even show the same genetic borders for shared ancestral components as the classical mapping out of the five race theory. The only thing they got wrong was the inclusion of admixtures in border groups.
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    One thing is actual experts' opinion and another thing is the opinion of "woke" leftist policy makers / propagandists. Among the former, there's no consensus on the issue.
    Also, China does not deny the existence of race. Not sure about Russia.
    Last edited by Universe; 03-22-2022 at 04:34 PM.

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    Survey of Expert Opinion on Intelligence: Causes of International Differences in Cognitive Ability Tests
    Causes of general cross-national differences
    Seventy-one experts rated possible causes of cross-national differences in cognitive ability based on psychometric IQs and student assessment studies (e.g., PISA, PIRLS, TIMSS). Genes were rated as the most important cause (17%),
    Only 5 of 71 experts (7%) who responded to the genetic item thought that genes had no influence.
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    Causes for the ability levels of single countries and groups—average ratings
    The strongest rated factor across all countries, regions, and groups was genes-evolution (19.72%), followed by educational quality (14.69%), culture (13.71%), and educational quantity (13.60%; Table ​Table1,1, last row).
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthDutch7991 View Post
    I think an updated and improved racial theory that involved genetics would be an extremely useful metric for categorizing the world. The denial of race itself, which was clearly just a way of understanding and defining the world as observed, is ridiculous. Modern day genetic studies even show the same genetic borders for shared ancestral components as the classical mapping out of the five race theory. The only thing they got wrong was the inclusion of admixtures in border groups.
    I agree with this. Race denial (along with its not-too-distant cousin, gender denial) is just postmodernist nonsense. Also, while it is true that there is no genetic basis to say that certain races or genders are superior or inferior to one another, there is more than enough to suggest they are, well, different.

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    Racial denialism is a very retarded "politically correct" modern anti-concept, aimed to destroy the racial/genetic identity of the different nations (but more so the white-European/mostly white-European western nations) through "happy mixing" with millions of foreign immigrants very racially alien to them, once convinced by the radical left propaganda that "human races don't exist".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millennium View Post
    What are your opinions of race denialism?
    Race denialism is basically creationism. Spectrum Fallacy and Lewontin's Fallacy are two fallacies that underlie all race denialism. It's entirely political, even the most hardcore race denialists won't deny that ethnic groups exist, and a race is just a collection of ethnic groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by Millennium View Post
    Race denialists seem to acknowledge variation in skin, hair & eye color & hair type, probably because those things are impossible to deny, but that seems to be as far as they’re willing to go, & they seem to claim that superficial variation doesn’t qualify as race. A lot of them often like to say that “we’re all one race, the human race”. I can’t seem to find out when exactly race denialism arose. I want to say that it had its origins in the 1960’s civil rights movement. It seems that before that, race was generally universally accepted as true/real.
    Race denialism actually came from Prussians (Rudolf Virchow) and Jews (Franz Boas). It all started in the late 19th century. The father of American Anthropology Franz Boas had it in his head that people were highly plastic, moldable by their environment to the degree that racial differences could be erased by cultural changes.



    It was not until the end of WW2 and the establishment of the Western negative foundation myth that blank slateism really was able to take hold of academic departments across the US and Europe. The reason for this sudden change was of course the Holocaust, which regardless of its truth value gave liberals the moral leverage they needed to push the race denialism they had been advocating for many decades already.

    One of Boas' students, Melville Herskovits, was the creator of the first African Studies department, despite not being African himself. Liberal Jews tend to have a fondness for them.

    In fact, the only well-known detractors to the efficacy of race-based medicine is one Dr. Jonathan Kahn, a Jewish SJW and professor, and Dorothy E. Roberts, an overtly anti-white black supremacist. Neither one are medical professionals. Their arguments also aren't based on the efficacy of the medicine, but rather that they personally don't think race exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Millennium View Post
    The classical physical anthropologists of the 19th & 20th centuries certainly seem to have believed in races. I think I’ve noticed that physical anthropology books seem to have started to have stopped being produced/published in the 1970’s, maybe a few came out in the 1980’s (I can only think of Carleton Coon’s book “Racial Adaptations” that was posthumously published in 1982), but by the 1990’s there didn’t seem to be any physical anthropology books published anymore & it was clear then that the era of physical anthropology, that is, the study of human races & variation, was over. What is the future of physical anthropology, that is, the study of human races & physical variation? Is it over/doomed? Could it ever make a comeback?
    Nope. Physical anthropology is simply irrelevant. Anthropology itself seems to be developing all kinds of specialist branches, mostly related to excavation of human remains in medical, legal and archaeological contexts, looking at bones and dead bodies, and attempt to determine what exactly happened. Nothing more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Millennium View Post
    Is race denialism ever likely to decrease & maybe replaced with race acknowledgement?
    They have already lost their importance when they started to drop the genetic aspect (which is not in its favour anymore) and focus on irrelevant semantic games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Millennium View Post
    Something I’m wondering, if we can agree that the term “race” basically simply means physical variation in phenotype based on geography/geographic ancestry, then doesn’t it basically exist, whether it’s known by the term “race” or any other term? & if it does, is it really something so bad?
    Nope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dreadtheblackpill View Post
    Normalcattle will not accept any other answer besides "we are all one race: the human race". No matter how many scientific studies are cited, nor how logical the proposition may be, cognitive dissonance is too strong among the average population for these attempts to achieve any meaningful results. I believe adherence to truth is impacted by personality just as much as intelligence is. Openness to experience and disagreeableness seem to be the most common traits among people who challenge the status quo. The rest of the population simply follows the established narrative without questioning anything. It's pointless.
    And humans are not even a race, but a species.

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