Do Germans hate freedom ?

[Peterski]

There is a Polish saying dating back to the 1600s or even older. It was included in a poem by Waclaw Potocki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wac%C5%82aw_Potocki

His poem in Polish:

"Nigdy w szczerej nie żyli Polak z Niemcem zgodzie,
Polaka pycha, Niemca wolność bodzie.
Stąd przypowieści miejsce, że póki świat światem,
Nie będzie nigdy Niemiec Polakowi bratem."

English translation:

"Poles and Germans never lived in an honest harmony,
Poles hate conceit, Germans hate freedom.
Hence a proverb exists, that until the world is the world,
A German will never be a Pole's brother."

[Peterski]

^^^ I think Germans value obedience & Ordnung > freedom.

This is why even when a madman becomes their leader, they are going to obey his orders until the end.

Also freedom of speech is low in the hierarchy of German values.

[Peterski]

^^^ I think Germans value obedience & Ordnung > freedom.

This is why even when a madman becomes their leader, they are going to obey his orders until the end.

Also freedom of speech is low in the hierarchy of German values.

^^^
In this respect, Russians are similar to Germans - with the exception of Ordnung, which is not valued in Russia (but obedience is).

[Peterski]

Based on Russian Criminal Code, the current war is illegal - but who is going to arrest Putin? Nobody, in Russia obedience is more important than law:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legali...criminal_codes

"Article 353 of the Russian Criminal Code prohibits planning, preparing, unleashing, or waging an aggressive war.[49]"

[sioned]

What is this anti-German and anti-Russian bias ...

[Peterski]

(...)

"Balance between Russia and Germany as long as you can, and when you no longer can, set the world on fire."

- Jozef Pilsudski (in 1935)

[Loki]

Poland is the great troublemaker and hater of its neighbours in Europe. Poland is the number one source of Russophobia (after Ukraine) and Germanophobia (it was the reason Hitler attacked the east initially, and thus started WW2).

Poland will be a primary cause of getting us into World War 3 too, due to its years of pushing Russophobic propaganda. In fact, the evil Prime Minister Morawiecky has now claimed Russophobia is accepted as mainstream in Poland. And no, it's not because of Putin's invasion of Ukraine....this attitude predates it by a long time.

Poland likes to portray itself as a "Christian" country, but its attitudes are anything but Christian. It is defined by hatred.

[Peterski]

(it was the reason Hitler attacked the east initially, and thus started WW2)

Poland is a bit like Negan from TWD (I know we both watch it), a good guy deep inside but on the surface a psychopath.

Hitler wanted to sign an anti-Russian alliance with Poland. But this is what a historian - Timothy Snyder - wrote about it:

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/201...ion-holocaust/

"(...) One of the most unusual features of Timothy Snyder’s Black Earth, writes Christopher R. Browning in his New York Review of Books review, is the many pages Snyder devotes to Poland, Zionism, and Palestine. At the center of this story is the short-lived alliance between the Polish government and the Zionist Revisionist Movement during the late 1930s, explored in the book’s first four chapters (the third titled “The Promise of Palestine”) and revisited in the conclusion. After Marshal Józef Piłsudski’s death, the ruling circles in Poland advocated solving the country’s so-called Jewish problem through the emigration of a large part of the Jewish population (estimated at about 3 million on the eve of the war). For that purpose, Snyder recounts, the Polish government lent public support to Revisionist Zionist leaders and paramilitary groups and even financed and trained them. Their hope was that these Jews would wage a campaign of resistance and terror against the British mandatory authorities in Palestine and establish a Jewish state open to large-scale Jewish emigration.


Why is the history of Revisionist Zionism and their Polish supporters so central to a book that claims we have misunderstood the Holocaust and purports to offer a new explanation for it? The Polish-Zionist Revisionist alliance is in fact so central to Snyder’s account that the four main Zionist Revisionist protagonists in his story—Vladimir Jabotinsky, Avraham Stern, Yitzhak Shamir, and Menachem Begin—are mentioned in the book more often than Stalin, Roosevelt, and Churchill combined.


One place to start is by situating Snyder’s discussion of Revisionist Zionism within its context in the book, namely an alliance that never materialized between Germany and Poland. As Snyder tells us, Adolf Hitler had initially hoped to draw Poland into a joint war of aggression against the Soviet Union. After some negotiations, Polish leaders rejected Hitler’s overtures. They determined that maintaining the status quo in Europe would benefit Poland more than war and feared that they would become a German satellite state following the Soviet Union’s defeat. Snyder, however, proposes that Hitler’s dream of a Polish-German alliance failed not merely because of Poland’s political calculations but ultimately because of ideological divisions. The failure to reach an agreement and the ensuing German invasion of Poland, he writes, “resulted from deep differences on the Jewish and Soviet questions that were shrouded for years by Polish diplomacy.” Snyder sums up these differences two pages later: 'The covert essence of German foreign policy in the late 1930s was the ambition to build a vast racial empire in eastern Europe; the covert essence of Polish foreign policy was to create a State of Israel in Palestine from the territories granted by the League of Nations mandate to the British Empire.' (...)"

[Peterski]

^^^ And before the current war, Putin was offering a Russian-Polish alliance against Ukraine too:

"Putin Offered Poland's Prime Minister The Chance To Join Forces And Partition Ukraine" (October 21, 2014):

https://www.businessinsider.com/puti...d-2014-10?IR=T

https://www.reuters.com/article/ukra...0ML1LO20140324

Or even back in 2008:

"Putin Offered To Divide Ukraine With Poland. Putin made the proposal during PM Donald Tusk's visit to Moscow in 2008":

https://www.rferl.org/a/26647587.html

If Poland wanted to have a piece of Ukraine against the will of Ukrainians, we would have accepted Putin's proposal.

Do you think it was stupid that we rejected Putin's offers?

[Loki]

^^^ And before the current war, Putin was offering a Russian-Polish alliance against Ukraine too:

"Putin Offered Poland's Prime Minister The Chance To Join Forces And Partition Ukraine" (October 21, 2014):

https://www.businessinsider.com/puti...d-2014-10?IR=T

https://www.reuters.com/article/ukra...0ML1LO20140324

Or even back in 2008:

"Putin Offered To Divide Ukraine With Poland. Putin made the proposal during PM Donald Tusk's visit to Moscow in 2008":

https://www.rferl.org/a/26647587.html

If Poland wanted to have a piece of Ukraine against the will of Ukrainians, we would have accepted Putin's proposal.

Do you think it was stupid that we rejected Putin's offers?

Yes, I think Poland should have taken the offer.