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Thread: Kosovo: Albanian Anti-Ottoman Revolt 1690

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    The Serbs were basically just some Slavic tribe, that thanks to the Romans/Byzantine and Croats, were settled in the Balkans.
    Had it not been for this they would of never even stepped foot in the Balkans. Thanks to Croats and Romans/Byzantine.

    Their earliest homeland, interesting enough, was recorded in the Caucasus:

    The Serboi (Ancient Greek: Σέρβοι, romanized: Sérboi) was a tribe mentioned in Greco-Roman geography as living in the North Caucasus, believed by scholars to have been Sarmatian.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serboi

    Their homeland was also recorded in 'White Serbia' in Central Europe

    Meanwhile the name where Albanian comes from has been mentioned in the Balkans by ancient Greek historians since before Jesus Christ

    There is also inscription found dating to the Roman period in Skopje, Macedonia:

    In the archaeological record, the Albanoi and Albanopolis have been directly attested on two funeral inscriptions. The toponym Albanopolis has been found on a funeral inscription in Gorno Sonje, near the city of Skopje (ancient Scupi), present-day North Macedonia.[14] It was excavated in 1931 by Nikola Vulić and its text was curated and published in 1982 by Borka Dragojević-Josifovska. The inscription in Latin reads "POSIS MESTYLU F[ILIUS] FL[AVIA] DELVS MVCATI F[ILIA] DOM[O] ALBANOP[OLI] IPSA DELVS" ("Posis Mestylu, son of Flavia, daughter of Delus Mucati, who comes from Albanopolis"). It dates to the end of the 1st century CE and the beginning of the 2nd century CE. Dragojević-Josifovska added two lines to the existing reading: VIVA P(OSUIT) SIBI/ ET VIRO SUO. Delus Mucati is an Illyrian name and his home region was Albanopolis (domo Albanopoli). Dragojević-Josifovska proposed that like others he had settled in Macedonia from southern Illyria.[15]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanoi

    Skopje was the capital of Dardania which included modern day Kosovo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardania_(Roman_province)

    Yet interesting how the Serbs claim they supposedly lived in these lands first ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baki View Post
    This is what I have been saying for years. Most of the Serbian claims on that place are completely nonsense. They are claims invented in the 19th-20th century during the Balkan state formation process and form of nationalism. .
    Did Noel Malcolm say Albanians were a minority in Kosovo during the Middle Ages?

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    I don't even know how you can try and argue against all this evidence. These people started claiming that place only in the late 19th century. It wasn't even part of their country but illegally occupied with an Albanian majority. Even if the Ottomans hadn't come, the Serbian Empire was crumbling, that's why they became Ottoman vassals, Albanian principalities were becoming stronger, that's why Albanians were one of the last people in the Balkans to be conquered by the Ottomans, Albanian principalities were always operating around the mountains of Western Macedonia and Western Kosovo and could of easily eventually expanded it's territory further, there were also some Albanians there from before. This is also how the Serbs managed to expand from 'Rashka' into Kosovo etc they exploited Byzantine weakness.

    Western Macedonia was held by Albanian Gropa family: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gropa_family

    Some sources claim Western Kosovo was held by the Albanian Dukagjini: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Dukagjini (Although little is known about this period)

    We know the Kastrioti family operated around Prizren in Kosovo and Dibra.

    Serbian historians explain the growth of an Albanian population in Kosovo during the early Ottoman period in terms of physical immigration: it is suggested that Albanians from the Malesi were encouraged by the Ottomans to settle in Kosovo, that many of these turned to Islam to gain the advantages of superior status, and that those Slavs who became Muslims were not merely Islamicized but, sooner or later, Albanianized as well.

    The Ottoman officials usually noted which heads of family were new arrivals in their places of residence; out of 121 new arrivals in the nahiye of Pec in 1485, the majority had Slav names. In the sancak of Prizren in 1591, only five new arrivals out of forty-one bore Albanian names; and in a group of Kosovo towns in the 1580's and 1590's there were twenty five new Albanian immigrants and 133 with Slav names - several of them described as coming from Bosnia. This evidence counts strongly against the idea of mass immigration from northern Albania. Other more general arguments against that idea are based on relative population sizes and rates of growth. The population of Kosovo during this period was much bigger than that of northern and central Albania, and its rate of growth was actually lower. This is not what one would expect if a large overflow from the Albanian Malesi were flooding into Kosovo.
    And the evidence also suggests that, while there was a steady flow of Albanians from Northern Albania into Kosovo, a major component of the Albanians demographic growth there was the expansion of an indigenous Albanian population within Kosovo itself.

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    Of course there were also mention Rascians / Serbs revolting. And these Serbs joined Albanians and revolted together. But in Serbian histography this revolt is entirely claimed as Serbian despite the bulk of the people that joined Piccolomini against the Ottomans seem to of been Albanian. And this also said by one of Piccolominis own officers, Colonel von Strasser as I quoted in the OP.

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    I'll ask again: Did Noel Malcolm say Albanians were a minority in Kosovo during the Middle Ages?

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    You can say whatever you want, dude, I am not even reading your posts because I know what guy you are. You claimed Kosova as a mafia state despite it's a country that has changed government several times and political oppositions winning. You mostly post articles from 10 to 20 years ago. I don't even need to read your nonsense.

    This revolt by the Austrian themselves was mentioned as Albanian, I quote again:

    And one of Piccolominis own officers, Colonel von Strasser, reported to Ludwig von Baden that Piccolomini had gone to Prizren in order to treat with 'The Albanians, Arnauts, and others (mit den Albanesernen, Arnauten und anderen')
    This was from Piccolominis own officer!!

    Yet they claim this was a Serbian revolt. This is not the only thing that has been falsified in that place.


    This whole Kosovo thing would of been avoided has that place been given to Albania back in 1912. The Albanians in Kosovo were murdered and their land was stolen from 1912 to 1939:


    Between 1918 and 1921, Serbian forces killed 12,346 civilians, burned 320 villages, looted 50,000 houses, imprisoned 22,16 and burned roughly 6000 houses.[44] Between 1913 to 1920, Serb colonists were given special privileges by the authorities to settle in areas, previously inhabited by Albanians, who had been vanished or killed numbering 60 000.[45]
    This was only from 1918 to 1921.

    After 1918, all Albanian schools in Montenegro, Macedonia and Kosovo were closed and around 400,000 ethnic Albanians were denationalised.[46] According to Vladan Jovanovic, Yugoslav authorities opened Turkish schools and not Albanian. Around 60% of Albanians were left without an income as a consequence of Yugoslav policy. Public services were closed to them and religious offices were politicised.[47] Yugoslav authorities also intended to replace Albanians in the region with Chetniks, war veterans and police men, as well as border police, refugees and party activists. In 1930, there existed no Albanian schools in Kosovo.

    You claim Russians are being murdered in Ukraine yet claim there has been no genocide on the Albanians in Kosovo.



    These Serbs have absolutely no right or claim to that place. It's nothing but falsification of history and that's pretty much the end of it. They entirely turned it into an Albanian enclave thanks to their policies back in the 1870's and the conflict was further instigated in 1912. This was admitted by a Serb intellectual himself Dimitrije Tucovic who took part and witnessed the massacres.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baki View Post
    You can say whatever you want, dude, I am not even reading your posts because I know what guy you are.
    I'm just asking you what your own source for 90% of what you're saying here said about Albanians in Kosovo during the Middle Ages.

    I don't even need to read your nonsense.
    You don't know what Noel Malcolm wrote? He's your guy, isn't he? Did you just skip that part of the book? Do you want me to post it and then ask you to explain it?

    Either way, it's going to be posted and so it's up to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baki View Post

    You claim Russians are being murdered in Ukraine yet claim there has been no genocide on the Albanians in Kosovo.
    You're clearly low IQ. First off, what happens in one place isn't related to another. Why would either be related?

    Also, I never claimed Russians were being genocided in eastern Ukraine. I said civilians were killed. You're stupid and so you think dead civilians automatically means genocide.

    There was no genocide in Kosovo. No serious person believes so. Some dead civilians aren't the same as large scale systematic murder of an ethnic group. Otherwise, you'd have to include the KLA as committing genocide against their own people (Albanians with different political opinions), Roma, and Serbs.

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    The 20,000 insurgents who met Piccolomini in Prizren were Albanians. Prizren was an Albanian city already in 1621

    In 1624, Pjeter Mazrreku reported that Prizren had roughly 200 Catholic inhabitants and 600 Serviani. But the great bulk of the population - 12,000 people in 1624 were Muslims, almost all of them Albanians.
    No doubt the 5,000 who came out to welcome Piccolomini did include many of the local Christians, both Catholic and Orthodox but they can hardly have accounted for more than a fifth of that crowd. It is surely significant that one of the earliest printed accounts of these events, an anonymous text based on original documents, refers to Piccolomini being greeted
    at Prizren by '5,000 Arnauts' who were partly Christian Albanians and partly Muslims.' And the anonymous Italian manuscript history which was also clearly based on dispatches and other documents kept in Vienna says that there stood outside Prizren 6,000 and more Albanians including the same ones who were previously paid wages by the Turks and who
    are called Arnauts.


    In Serbian historiography they have claimed that these Albanians who met Piccolomini were not really Albanians but Serbs

    One modern historian, Rajko Veselinovic, argued on those grounds that the Albanians referred to in the early
    accounts of Piccolomini's dealings at Prizren were the mountain clans of Montenegro which were Slav speaking and mostly Orthodox but enough independent historical evidence exists of the actions of these clans during 1689-90 to make this claim unconvincing.
    But it's something that is impossible

    They claim the archbishop mentioned in Prizren was Arsenije yet there is evidence to show it was not Arsenije but Bogdani, Arsenije was in Montenegro at that point.



    As for the fighting men who subsequently brought
    the total (at least in theory) to 20,000 some of these
    may also have been inhabitants of Prizren (which in
    1670 had a population of roughly 50,000) but the evidence
    suggests that others were drawn from further afield. Contarini's
    account refers to Piccolomini, on his sickbed in Prizren,
    receving the 'chiefs of the neighboring peoples
    who came to pay tribute to the Emperor with oaths of fealty.
    If, as seems likely, some of these chiefs had been summoned
    by Bogdani, we might expect them to have included the leaders
    of Catholic clans in the nearby parts of the Malesi and
    indeed an Ottoman document written in February 1690 does
    refer to a large group of mostly Catholic clans from that
    area (including the warlike Fandi) who had allied themselves
    with the Austrians. But the pledged total of 20,000 may well
    have included other Albanians from areas close to Prizren
    who were no longer Catholic, having been converted to Islam
    within theprevious two three generations - for example,
    the Shulla or Has region, where as Pjeter Mazrreku reported
    in 1634 there had previously been 50 Catholic parishes but
    were now only five. Mazrreku also noted that the conversions
    to Islam was quite superficial: in 1671 another report on this
    area stated that '28 years ago there were many Christians
    now there remain 300 women and very few men, the rest having abjured
    their faith in order to escape impositions and taxes.

    the evidence shows that the Austrians also were all not so friendly, for example Holstein is reported to have burned down Slavic villages in Prizren and that there were Serbs and Albanians
    fighting on the Ottoman side. There was some Austrian hostility towards the local population, both Albanian and Serb.

    One early account described Mahmut Begollis army as consiting of Rascians as well as Albanians some of these Rascians may also have been Orthodox Slavs
    Regarding the so called 'Great Migration' :

    Austrian rule in Kosovo was extremely short-lived.
    After the disastrous defeat at Kacanik on 2 January 1690
    (which is attributed by some early accounts to disaffection
    among the Arnauts on the Austrian side though the
    most direct evidence we have makes no mention of this),
    the Austrians withdrew in confusion and a joint Tatar-Ottoman
    force entered the region. Arsenije fled northwards from Peje
    also making a rapid retreat to the north were the Austrian
    troops, plus some Rascians and Arnauts who had been stationed
    in Prizren, together with the Catholic priest Toma Raspasani.
    As he later explained, the rest of the population stayed behind:
    Nobody was able to get out of Prizren or Peje, they all remained
    there as prey to the barbarian. The popular idea, promoted
    by nineteenth century writers and still encountered in the
    modern historical literature, that Arsenije led a great
    'exodus' of his people out of Kosovo is thus simply false.
    He travelled to Belgrade, and spent most of the summer
    there, this strong hold, still under Austrian control, was a
    natural destination for many Serb refugees, and those
    who gathered there during 1690 presumably included people
    from those parts of Kosovo (mainly the eastern half)
    from which it had been possible to escape from the
    Ottoman-Tatar incursion but the majority of the
    refugees to escape from the Ottoman Tatar incursion: but
    the majority of the refugees there were probably from other
    areas. (in the record of a meeting of Serb dignitaries held
    in Belgrade in June, the names of people from many parts of
    the Serb lands are specified but as it happens no one from Kosovo
    apart from the Patriarch himself. Finally in the last month
    of 1689 (the chronology is unclear but the process must have begun
    before the fall of Belgrade in early October). a mass refugees
    together with the Patriarch moved northwards into Hungarian
    territory settling in the area between Buda and Komarom (Komarno)

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    In Serbian historiography they claim this as a purely Serbian revolt but it's impossible , demographically and historically. There were both Serbs and Albanians fighting against Ottomans
    on the Austrian side and some from both sides joined the Ottomans. The evidence also shows that some of the Austrians were hostile to the local Serb and Albanian population.

    As for Arsenije it is impossible that he could of led a large crowd of people out of Kosovo. He went to Belgrade where most of the people that settled Habsburg territory with him came
    from that area. That these people came from Kosovo is also something demographically impossible.

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