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Thread: Serbocroatia?

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    Default Serbocroatia?

    There is a population in Europe that speaks one language and that actually had an incredible bad luck to settle exactly on the border of the Western and the Eastern Roman Empire. No other people is doing that.

    I refer to the speakers of Serbocroatian or whatever you prefer to call it. The area of that people and language is shown here.



    The referred to border per 395 AD is here:



    Here you can see it as well, projected onto a map with the current political borders:



    Here is a closer look:



    As known, the Eastern Roman Empire was ruled with Greek culture while the leading culture west of it was the Latin one. This caused different letters on both sides of the border.

    Later there was the East–West Schism in 1054 splitting the Church into Catholic and Orthodox which essentially also went along this border, which deepened the trench within Serbocroats.

    And as if this bad luck would not be enough, there happened one more thing to the Serbocroats. The Turks conquered the Balkans and stopped somewhere inmidst the Serbocroats. It went forth and back, but on this map, depicting the duration of the Turkish rule, you can see that some parts where ruled by Turks for half a millenium, while others where not ruled by Turks at all.



    And again this division of Serbocroats was roughly somewhere in proximity to that 395 AD border. The Turkic rule had a notable cultural impact on the society and on the people.

    Essentially all conflicts between Serbs, Croats and Muslim Bosniaks can be traced back to ultimately hail from these various and repeated partitions.

    I’m not sure how unique a political togetherness of Serbocroats was like it was performed by the entity of Yugoslavia, but I guess it was close to unique. We all know that Yugoslavia eventually fell apart and it did share the fate of other multiethnic states.

    But it also comprised other official languages such as Slovene and Macedonian. Would a „Serbocroatia“ have had more stability than Yugoslavia?

    Not as for today - I know -, but theoretically at some time in the future, are there thinkable (and wishable) perspectives for a Serbocroatian unity?
    I do not just mean two (or three) different parts being together but also together forming a common entity and ethnicity.

    As Germany, Hungary, Switzerland and the Netherlands show, you can well have different religions (Catholic, Protestant, Calvinist) within one ethnicity. But to my conviction you can not enduringly have two different alphabets.

    If I would try to be a just architect of ”Serbocroatia”, I would say this:

    All sides will have to do sacrifices for the common project if it shall work. Serbs did already dominate in Yugoslavia, so they would dominate even more within Serbocroatia, which is unpleasant for non-Serbs. So going into a political entity where they are a minority would already be a sacrifice for Croats. By adapting Shtokavian, Croats did another sacrifice for a Serbocroatian commonality. From these aspects it would be the Serbs that should do a (very heavy) sacrifice for a common alphabet. I remind that the Orthodox Romanians deliberately shifted from the Cyrillic to the Latin alphabet at abt. 1860. And even the Muslim Turks shifted from the Arabic alphabet to the Latin one in 1928. So I think such a shift is something that Serbs could do as well without violating all their indentity. Non-Serb Serbocroats would be very aware of such a Serb sacrifice.
    The capital should be in Bosnia-Hercegovina for acknowledging the Muslim Bosniaks as part of Serbocroats as well as being somewhat neutral and acceptable in the context of a Croat-Serb competition. I’d suggest Sarajevo, as it’s geographically central within Serbocroatia and also internationally representative and known (from the Olympic Games f. i.). Unless the Bosniaks would not like to lose their big and pure Muslim city to become a pan-Serbocroatian capital. Of course becoming capital would have a notable effect on its inhabitants.
    Alternatively it could also be chosen Zenica or Banja Luka for capital which is not way off. You can select smaller capitals like Brasilia and Canberra as well as Bonn in Western Germany. Even Washington is actually a small and not very important city in the context of US cities. Of course, especially smaller cities like Zenica or Banja Luka would be notably transformed in a pan-Serbocroatian sense if becoming capital. It’s then not very important how they are populated today.

    A successful Serbocroatia could put an end to all serious internal conflicts. The horror of the Thirty Year’s War in Germany between Protestants and Catholics and this religious conflict was enduringly overcome in the following centuries. Modern times could even help.

    Thoughts on this? - preferrably by people involved.
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    Croats are much more Northern genetically than Serbs.

    They are different people who speak the same language.


    Last edited by Russki; 04-09-2022 at 05:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rothaer View Post

    Not as for today - I know -, but theoretically at some time in the future, are there thinkable (and wishable) perspectives for a Serbocroatian unity?
    I do not just mean two (or three) different parts being together but also together forming a common entity and ethnicity.


    Thoughts on this? - preferrably by people involved.

    Big NO. Never again.

    Not just that new union should never exist, but current Bosnia-Herzegovina should desintegrate, with Republika Srpska joining Serbia.

    What will happen with Croats and Bosnian Muslims, I dont care.
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    ''Bad luck'' , more like they got lucky and ended up taking perhaps some of the best land.

    You obviously have a biasedness towards Balkan Slavs.

    As for Croatia, why would there be a unity, Croatia is doing much better and it's a much more beautiful country in general.

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    Man, Croats and Serbs were part of one country for most time of XX century, during that time they didn't adapt to each other, I would even risk saying nothing changed.
    There was a very recent conflict between them, it will take centuries(literally) to make it at least really neutral(not diplomacy neutral, neutral as for ordinary people who found forgiveness).

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    I mean nothing is impossible, just wonder what factors would make them retry this, would it be some war that drive them to unite to survive or economicly?dont thing it will be for the good old days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleach View Post
    ''Bad luck'' , more like they got lucky and ended up taking perhaps some of the best land.
    With "bad luck" I meant to have got all the consequences in the past that led to many conflicts and suffering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bleach View Post
    You obviously have a biasedness towards Balkan Slavs.
    I'm likely not as unbiased as a Chinese or Nigerian but what mentionable bias do you see?
    Last edited by rothaer; 04-09-2022 at 05:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zohor View Post
    Man, Croats and Serbs were part of one country for most time of XX century, during that time they didn't adapt to each other, I would even risk saying nothing changed.
    There was a very recent conflict between them, it will take centuries(literally) to make it at least really neutral(not diplomacy neutral, neutral as for ordinary people who found forgiveness).
    Yes.
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    No more serbocroasha.

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    They're not the same people, they were different ethnicities living in different states for a very long time (for like 1000 years). There are Russophone people in Ukraine who declare themselves ethnically Ukrainian and fight against Russian invasion (the famous boxer Alexander Usyk is a good example of this). So language by itself doesn't necessarily determine ethnicity.
    As far as I know, 200 years agol Serbs and Croats differed inguistically from each other much more than nowadays. Today a Serb and Croat person understands each other without much effort, but that wasn't the case 200 years ago. There were some reforms to bring the two languages closer to each other, which were implemented for pan-slavic reasons.
    Last edited by Universe; 04-09-2022 at 05:51 PM.

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