Are Montenegrins Serbs?

[Vožd]

They're genetically a mix between Dalmatians, Serbs of Rascia (Raška) and Gheg Highlander Albanians. They do have ethno-geographic differences - with the northern communities being predominantly Serb and Dalmatian; and the Sandzak / Malesia areas having more Gheg admixture (though not dominant).

Culturally, they're definitely South Slav and share many cultural traditions and linguistic trends with Serbs.

Who are "Rascian Serbs" and "Dalmatians" in genetic sense? Also why you think that Montenegrin E1b have anything to do with Ghegs?

[vbnetkhio]

Some Montenegrians will say they are Serbs, but most of them won't.
Montenegro was an independent country before WWI and it had all features of sovereignty - its dynasty, flag, currency, capital etc. Its population was Slavic, but with strong Albanian influence (some tribes like Kuči were at least partial of Albanian ancestry) and specific tribal organization. But their similarities to Serbs are obvious and South Slavic Movement (combined with dynastic aspirations of Njegoš dynasty) brought them closer to Serbs. It led to formation of "Green" (for independent Montenegro) and "White" (for union with Serbia) party after WWI. These divisions among Montenegrian people remain until our time.

They're genetically a mix between Dalmatians, Serbs of Rascia (Raška) and Gheg Highlander Albanians. They do have ethno-geographic differences - with the northern communities being predominantly Serb and Dalmatian; and the Sandzak / Malesia areas having more Gheg admixture (though not dominant).

Culturally, they're definitely South Slav and share many cultural traditions and linguistic trends with Serbs.

where are you getting this from? not a single true fact here, except for the probable Albanian ancestry in some clans.
(ok, maybe more than just one, but put in a very weird way)

[Varda]

Serbs have no unique history, it's vary by group of Serbs. Montenegro no matter how small, also have no unique history. Northern Montenegro (spent a lot under Ottomans, also was part of Rascia before, one of core of medieval Serbia) and coastal Montenegro (spent a lot under Venice) is very different historically and threafore culturally. Central Montenegro is also specific and most isolated with longest period of local rule.

About Bijelo Polje area (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bijelo_Polje) from the book Traveling Through Montenegro of Draško Šćekić https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draško_Šćekić

It is the most spacious fertile and low plain from Nikšić to Valjevo mountains and from Sarajevo to Sjenica plateaus, and oasis of favorable climate. It seems Bijelo Polje area was center of Rascia before Nemanjić dynasty.
In the time of Nemanjić dynasty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemanjić_dynasty) it was one of the most enlightened and developed regions of their state and a strong pillar of their statehood. Almost there is no settlement in Lim valley without residues of old tombs, churches and other remnants of material and spiritual culture which shows a rich social life and history of area, especially Bijelo Polje, in the middle age.


In Bijelo Polje exist church of Saint Peter and Paul built in 1190. by Miroslav of Hum (older brother of Stefan Nemanja founder of Nemanjić dynasty) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miroslav_of_Hum

[Varda]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E..._in_Montenegro

English sub.

[Varda]

Headline from Serbian newspaper "Serbian and Montenegrin roommates" https://www.novosti.rs/vesti/scena.1...ogorka-cimerke
Refers to the Serbian and Montenegrin candidate in the Miss Universe pageant in China 2018.

They look same (left Montenegrin, right Serbian)

[JohnnyP]

Nope , of course, they are not the same, Montenegrins are more native and after Albanians most traditional people when it comes to family traditions, mostly Montenegrins are from clans and they know their origin, the thing is in past Serbian propaganda was strong and many people accepted "serb" to be their ethnic recognization, also thousands of Montenegrins migrated to Serbian cities and became assimilated, whatever, they are closer to Bosniaks from Sandzak and to North Albanians than to Serbs, genetically speaking, Serbs are more Austro-Hungarian genetically influenced than Balkanic.

[Dušan]

they are closer to Bosniaks from Sandzak and to North Albanians than to Serbs, genetically speaking, Serbs are more Austro-Hungarian genetically influenced than Balkanic.

No, they are not closer to Albanians, than to other Serbs.



And other Serbs are not "more Austro-Hungarian genetically influenced" than Montenegrins, but a bit more Slavic influenced.

[Varda]

Nope , of course, they are not the same, Montenegrins are more native and after Albanians most traditional people when it comes to family traditions, mostly Montenegrins are from clans and they know their origin, the thing is in past Serbian propaganda was strong and many people accepted "serb" to be their ethnic recognization, also thousands of Montenegrins migrated to Serbian cities and became assimilated, whatever, they are closer to Bosniaks from Sandzak and to North Albanians than to Serbs, genetically speaking, Serbs are more Austro-Hungarian genetically influenced than Balkanic.

If tribal organization shows than Montenegrins are closer to Gheg Albanians than to Serbs, than Mijaks and Brsjaks are closer to Ghegs than to other Macedonians.

Mijaks even today have tribal consciousness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mijaks

[Vožd]

Nope , of course, they are not the same, Montenegrins are more native and after Albanians most traditional people when it comes to family traditions, mostly Montenegrins are from clans and they know their origin, the thing is in past Serbian propaganda was strong and many people accepted "serb" to be their ethnic recognization, also thousands of Montenegrins migrated to Serbian cities and became assimilated, whatever, they are closer to Bosniaks from Sandzak and to North Albanians than to Serbs, genetically speaking, Serbs are more Austro-Hungarian genetically influenced than Balkanic.

There is no any differences between Montenegrin Serbs and ethnic Montenergns, also ethnic Montenegrins are very similiar to other Dinaric Serbs when it's comes to traditions. What is real different between Montenegro and other Dinarc Serb regions is presence of tribes/clans, but other Serb groups also had clan system in past, in Montenegro is just perserved until these days. A lot of Serbs in Serbia also known it's own clan origin etc.
Also clan system exist only in central Montenegro, not in noeth or south, so even Montenegrins (regradless ethnicity) are not same culturally.

Serbs are more Austro-Hungarian genetically influenced than Balkanic.

What this mean?

[JohnnyP]

If tribal organization shows than Montenegrins are closer to Gheg Albanians than to Serbs, than Mijaks and Brsjaks are closer to Ghegs than to other Macedonians.

Mijaks even today have tribal consciousness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mijaks

Brsjak and Mijaks are ethnic Macedonians , and their results are totally Macedonian / Northwest and Northeast Greek ( Thrace ) like.

Distance to: Mijak1
1.54256280 Macedonian_South
1.90102604 Macedonian_Central
2.49595673 Greek_Florina
3.44370443 Aromanian
3.53167099 Albanian_Montenegro
3.53335535 Macedonian_North
3.54942249 Greek_Thrace
3.68237695 Albanian_Macedonia
3.99733661 Albanian_Kosovo
4.24028301 Albanian_North_Albania
4.35209145 Torbesh
4.57710607 Greek_CentralMacedonia
4.74599831 Greek_Thessaly
4.75537591 Greek_Epirus