[Poll] Do you support Ukraine or Russia ?

[papa diddy pop]

I didn't say NATO is forcing anyone to fight. NATO (really the US) is prolonging a war that Ukrainians can't win by giving them arms, and hence a moneymaker for certain companies. It's a proxy war between NATO (US) and Russia.



"Ony 30 billion..." and will continue to send money and arms.

The Russian military wants an open war instead of an urban one because they would easily wipe the Ukrainian military out. An urban war benefits Ukrainians. You don't miraculously become well trained in using new military equipment overnight.

I don't think Ukraine can repay what the USA are giving her, USA sure will loose money so of course if they give military equipment it has to be American. Yeah if you read Wali interview, Ukraine army is shit so what's more logical for Ukraine to prefer an urban war ? That didn't stop the Russian to totaly destroy Mariupol.

Baltic nations (except Belarus, which is friendly with Russia) are in NATO. Ukraine is not (all but name). A war with the former means war with NATO.

Do you think they invaded Ukraine because they have nothing better to do ?

What matters is what the Russians consistently have said for two decades after being lied to their faces about NATO not expanding east if they allow East and West Germany to unite. They have said to NATO (US) not to meddle in Ukraine. There is a record of this. That is the line they have drawn and demand to be respected. You call NATO expansion defensive all you like but when you have 'defensive' missiles that can easily be turned offensive and you have consistently lied about your intentions in the past (the broken promise made about NATO not expanding east), why would you believe anything said by the people who have lied before?

People have short memories. We - the US - have done the same thing during the Soviet era when we supported an invasion of Cuba. It failed but the point is we did not want a nation in a pact with our greatest enemy sitting on our border. If it wasn't for nuclear weapons the US would have invaded Cuba with an American force but the prospect of a nuclear war changed all that.

Putin invaded Ukraine for the simple reason that Putin was losing control on Ukraine, He is an expansionist, Putin doesn't like NATO because a country that enters NATO is a country that can be free from Russia influence/dictatorship. Look what he did to Georgia, did NATO expanded in Georgia ? NO ! Lol the NATO promise is fake. NATO is no threat to Russia, do you think NATO would attack Russia for no reason ? Russia has nuclear weapon so they would sure use it if their land was attacked and they weren't able to defend it the traditional way. I don't see why on earth NATO would attack Russia. And NATO never forced countries to be part of it, you can't say the same about URSS. Even some NATO countries were against Ukraine being part of NATO because they feared Putin reaction. The proof is that if you're not part of NATO, Putin attack you, that what is happening right now, not the contrary !

It's possible that Donbas might be absorbed now but the opportunity for Donbas to be autonomous was on the table since 2014 and instead the Ukrainian government bombed and killed civilians. This war didn't start in 2022. It started in 2014 with ethnic Russians in the Donbas having legitimate anxiety over discrimination after Russians had literally been burned to death and shot in Odessa while authorities looked on.

Click the link in my signature. John Mearsheimer isn't a nobody.

Lol what a sketch, if Ukraine replicated it's maybe because Russia was behind the indepandantists taking over some part of the Donbass and attacking Ukraine territory. Funny thing is that Russians in Donbass should be free from Ukraine but I see no mention of Chechens being brutally killed by Russians 20 years ago (not crying for those muslims though). Would you say that Putin should have accepted Chechnya independance instead of bombing and killing civilians ? There you see Putin Hypocrisy at his finest, people should be 'independant' (understand be part of Russia) if they're pro-Russia but should be killed if they're anti-Russia.

Anyway Putin annexing part of countries next to him is a threat to European security and stability, where would he stop ? He proved that he doesn't stop, first 2008, then 2014 and now 2022. But anyway that doesn't stop me to vote for pro-Russian political party here in France because they were the only ones against immigration. And black and muslim immigration are more a threat than Ukraine annexion but that shouldn't mean that Putin shouldn't be stopped. Btw Putin doesn't care about Europe, He threw many black and muslim migrants at the border of Poland !

Why would you defend Putin being American ?

[tk'es]

i'm against an aggressive foreign invasion of sovereign states, on the other hand it gives a chance to ukrainians to invade russia the same way, and there is definitely a nazi prevalence in both sides.. who rules their governments? non russians and non ukrainians. who fights each other? russians and ukrainians, and + - some ethnic minorities.
support? certainly, neither.

[wvwvw]

Neither.

Russia must choose what it wants to be: a European nation state or an Eurasian Empire. I don't think the last one is a viable option for Russia in the long run.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

I don't think Ukraine can repay what the USA are giving her, USA sure will loose money so of course if they give military equipment it has to be American.

US companies get paid by the US government (American tax dollars). The expectation isn't that Ukraine will ever pay the US back monetarily. It's not like these death merchant companies write a bill to the Ukrainian government.

Yeah if you read Wali interview, Ukraine army is shit so what's more logical for Ukraine to prefer an urban war ? That didn't stop the Russian to totaly destroy Mariupol.

Do you think Ukrainian generals are stupid? The Ukrainian military will be slaughtered in the open field whether they have US tanks or whatever or don't. Urban warfare is the best option because urban warfare is the most difficult for an invading force to face. That they're losing doesn't change that fact. They were always going to lose if they fought on their own. This was understood by everyone with any sense on day one. This is why this war is a tragedy. NATO/US know the Ukrainian military can't win but they push them forward anyway and hence why I said, "NATO/US will fight until the last Ukrainian."

Putin invaded Ukraine for the simple reason that Putin was losing control on Ukraine,

Why not in 2014 when there was a US led coup of the Ukrainian government? A legitimate government fell to an illegitimate government and before you say "but it was controlled by Russia!" the prior elections were monitored by international obervers and deemed a fair election. Under your reasoning, Putin waited 8 years to invade because... ????

He is an expansionist, Putin doesn't like NATO because a country that enters NATO is a country that can be free from Russia influence/dictatorship. Look what he did to Georgia, did NATO expanded in Georgia ? NO !

I'm going to stop here because you clearly do not know what you're talking about and I'm not wasting my time with someone who doesn't even know the basics. Yes, look at what Russia did to Georgia. A nation that was basically a NATO member without being a NATO member just like Ukraine.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_38988.htm

Why would NATO care about shitty little Georgia? They don't other than surrounding Russia. This is a recipe for disaster and naturally Russia acted. Once again, if Russia or China or another nation antagonistic to the US had the same relationship that NATO/US had with Georgia in our hemisphere there would be hell to pay.

You also showed ignorance in your previous post when you said, "Well, why not attack the Baltic states. They have missiles also. The reason for invading Ukraine is nonsense." How does someone not know that if you attack a nation that is a NATO member that there will be all out war with NATO?

I just don't have the patience. You need to at least know the basics.

Why would you defend Putin being American ?

It's this type of question that reminds me why I shouldn't bother having a serious discussion.

I'm not defending anyone. I'm using something called reason and objectivity, which most forum posters here have no ability to do. If you switch Mexico for Ukraine and Russia for the US the same thing would happen because nations look out for their own interests. This is a needlessly stupid war that could have been avoided if the US didn't meddle in Ukraine. It's as simple as that.

[oszkar07]

I support the majority of the citizens of the Ukraine and the good people citizens of Russia.

Im no fan for the Dogs of War, Proxy war politicians and military complex etc.
For most Regular folk nothing good will come from this. Its already even impacted gas prices and stockmarkets around the globe.

For as the OP I dont really feel strong support for either political entity from either nation.Both come with faults and agendas Im sure. Do I support the invasion of the sovereign nation of Ukraine ...No.

[Damião de Góis]

I chose the "I support Ukraine" option, although in reality more than supporting Ukraine, I condemn the Russian invasion.

I think that although it doesn't seem like it, the nuance is important.

Same.

To this day i still don't know what could possibly justify the invasion and bombing of another european country. And i don't know what the plan is.

[Anglo-Celtic]

I support the majority of the citizens of the Ukraine and the good people citizens of Russia.

Im no fan for the Dogs of War, Proxy war politicians and military complex etc.
For most Regular folk nothing good will come from this. Its already even impacted gas prices and stockmarkets around the globe.

For as the OP I dont really feel strong support for either political entity from either nation.Both come with faults and agendas Im sure. Do I support the invasion of the sovereign nation of Ukraine ...No.

We're on the same page. Sadly, that page seems to be in a book from the dystopian science fiction section. This war likely will worsen the food shortage and the high prices. Leaders are breathtakingly incompetent but not *this* incompetent, so it seems like certain forces want the daily headlines to match the Book of Revelation.

[oszkar07]

We're on the same page. Sadly, that page seems to be in a book from the dystopian science fiction section. This war likely will worsen the food shortage and the high prices. Leaders are breathtakingly incompetent but not *this* incompetent, so it seems like certain forces want the daily headlines to match the Book of Revelation.

Word
Strange days indeed !

[Nanushka]

[QUOTE=Colonel Frank Grimes;7499102]A good example of the hysteria that exists.

Yes, and it is rightful (considering russians are threatening Europe with nuking and erasing from the map lol)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ater-nuke.html

Ukrainians are obviously Slavs.

How obvious is that 'obvious'? Please provide evidence. They are coming from the Cumans (Kipchaks) and Tatars after them as well as Rusyns and Kievan Rus where the latter was found only after 12.century. Before that all that vast land including Eastern Europe and Northern Caucasia was ruled by Turkics and was called Dasht-i-Kipchak (the Cuman Steppe). Many of their names, culture and customs still related to them, Ataman coming in the first place

http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com...U%5CCumans.htm

If you think this is brutal, then you're not familiar with military history. This is perhaps the tamest major war in the past 100 years. This doesn't diminish the loss of innocent life but it is the reality.

yes I think it is brutal and it is brutal, no matter where it is placed in military history. Innocent and decent civilians are dying or being deported and you call it tamed? Donbass is under russian control now, no? why are they not stopping this madness then?

[Voskos]

I am against the war therefore in opposition to any country that supports any of the sides , including my own.