Finland will join to NATO and Sweden follows (same timeschedule)

[Finnish Swede]

Applications are in, the snowball is running, and this is not anymore hands of Finns or Swedes ...






Same time in Kreml:

[Finnish Swede]

Perhaps something which many has not yet recognized? Now the Baltic Sea will become one kind of inland sea of NATO
(except Kaliningrad and bay front of St Petersburg).

[Creoda]

Lets say just defensive, not overly. That membership is not a problem at all if youre not a jew like Geert Wilders, believe me. I have never seen a thing from a NATO official or from any NATO-country official. I would still appreciate though if you can bring any reliable source that explains why is that membership is a problem.

It's a problem because there's no good reason since the Cold War why Europeans should potentially risk their lives for the defence of Turkey, or vice versa. Cultures that have nothing else in common. Unnecessary entanglement has caused two world wars, you may as well have Israel as a member.

If not for Russia's recent stupidity NATO's days may have been numbered; many Europeans are going to prefer a common EU defence rather than the outside influence of Americans or Turks, no matter what they bring to the table materially. I predict that will still happen, and it will be the end of all the nation-states that sign up.

[Annihilus]

Turkey blocks NATO ambassadors ability to begin the process of processing Sweden's and Finland's NATO membership. Turkey demands, among other things, the extradition of 30 people accused of terrorism in Turkey.

don't shoot the messenger

[Hektor12]

It's a problem because there's no good reason since the Cold War why Europeans should potentially risk their lives for the defence of Turkey, or vice versa. Cultures that have nothing else in common. Unnecessary entanglement has caused two world wars, you may as well have Israel as a member.

Retaliating your poor argument with equally poor one; Why had Italians potentially risk their lives for the defence of Greece, country which they fought just a few years ago. The same with British, French and Germany. Of course, you may as well have Israel as member, but the question is will Europeans join Israel's usual wars against Arabs?

If not for Russia's recent stupidity NATO's days may have been numbered; many Europeans are going to prefer a common EU defence rather than the outside influence of Americans or Turks, no matter what they bring to the table materially. I predict that will still happen, and it will be the end of all the nation-states that sign up.

Common EU defence might have been possible, and i would support that. (Besides, i doubt that they wont invite Turkey at one stage) There might have been similar and even greater flaws can be found or emerge in different military unions. According to a recent study (survey?) which ive seen in this forum; Finns are not very interested in defending Greece or Hungary, for example. And unlike in NATO, theres no "big brother" in EU as a a persuading factor, which will make things harder. Yeah, real world might have been different than what it looks like from a millennial white-supremacist's window.

[Finnish Swede]

Erdogan is trying to get benefits for Turkey here. Mainly what comes to Turkey's matters with PKK (Kurdistan Workers' Party).

Erdogan also wants to get Fethullah Gulen retuned to Turkey. Gulen is in USA. Something which Turkey did not succeed 2016.
This one has nothing to do with these two countries (SWE and FIN) and shows Erdogan's real target. Generally West should show Turkey much more all kinds of support against PKK!

What comes to first one, ok, there are 2 possible PKK members? in Sweden's parliament today. Immigrants and today members of Social Democrat party of Sweden. This is still not anything abnormal in West Europe (NATO countries). Finland? Do not even have that.
Erdogan also demands that no Kurds could ever be in parliament of Sweden (or Finland). That is something which any democratic country can not accept. That is against western values too (which are surprisingly the bases of NATO). Then there are demands that PKK peoples bank accounts should put in ice and list of people who should be transported to Turkey. Again something which nobody will do if just one third party/country will gonna ask.

Finland's president and Sweden's PM will travel to USA tomorrow. As the tip of arrow is showed against USA, USA is the right country to discuss with Turkey. Not the first time in history.

If not anything else, this will be interesting political episode to follow.

[Blondie]

Why had Italians potentially risk their lives for the defence of Greece, country which they fought just a few years ago. The same with British, French and Germany.

Italy and Greece has very personal good historical relationship. If Turkey would attack Greece, it may has very serious consequences. The russian situation is different because russians are also europeans so it's basically an internecine war among whites, but Turkey is a foreign country and most europeans dont see them as one among us, it would be attack on the european continent/civilization by an outsider that would bring european countries together against the enemy. Remember when ottomans invaded the Balkans not short after that most europeans supported the Habsburg Empire to kick ottomans out.

Common EU defence might have been possible, and i would support that.

If this happens, then it would be similar to the austro-hungarian army. We need a leading language, it would be english in the case of EU, and it was german and hungarian in the case of A-H. Nowadays its not a big thing to speak english at least basic level, but such multiethnic armies have it's own limitations. I've heard many story from the WW1 that the A-H army was being weakened by ethnic conflicts. When my grand grand etc father was in the russian front, czech logistics brought the food for the soldiers and they poured the half food out in the bush, and the soldiers were always hungry. Nevertheless the Habsburg Empire had one of the biggest ground forces in the WW1, it's impact ability was not so strong. So i think the national armies are more powerful.

[Voskos]

Applications are in, the snowball is running

Say bye bye to Sweden and Finland being models for democracy. Your countries will now become americas bitches like Denmark is.

[Finnish Swede]

Say bye bye to Sweden and Finland being models for democracy. Your countries will now become americas bitches like Denmark is.

Denmark? Also Norway and Iceland. Yes, we'll belong to right group.


But of course first USA will need to show Turkey that Turks are American bitches as well ).

[Blondie]

Say bye bye to Sweden and Finland being models for democracy.

If someone thought Sweden is a democratic model, then they have no idea about democracy. Only these sucks this propaganda who know nothing about Visegrad Countries, who are the most democratic in the EU by far.
I want to create a thread that compare the modern swedish democracy with the communist Hungary (Kádár's liberal communism), i will do it tomorrow or the near future.