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Thread: Would Flemish/Dutch speaking people feel okay with being in a "German union" (on an EU-like level)?

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    Default Would Flemish/Dutch speaking people feel okay with being in a "German union" (on an EU-like level)?

    To my conviction the EU will breakup at some time. If we theoretically presuppose that, then there could still be countries continuing the cooperation, which would f. i. make sense for German speaking countries. You would have the advantages of cooperation without facing a cultural destruction. Let's call that a German union. I'd not like to have any onther language speakers than German ones in such a political entity. But I would be okay with Dutch/Flemish being part of it. To my feeling German language and culture could never be harmed by another German (in a wider sense) language and culture, such as Dutch/Flemish imo are. Admittedly I here take into consideration that the population proportions of Dutch/Flemish would not be able to question the high German language.

    But I wonder, how would Dutch/Flemish people think about such conditions? Definitely the high German language would would get more spread somewhat - realistically in long terms at expense of Dutch/Flemish. But also we in Germany, where half of the population historically once was speaking Low German have been essentially okay with that development. It was a long term change that goes over centuries. It was a notable linguistic sacrifice in favor for a German cooperation and unification, but high German was never felt as an alienation.

    What are the Dutch/Flemish feelings about the high German language? Would Flemish/Dutch speaking people feel okay with being in a "German union" (on an EU-like level)?
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    There was a dutch guy called Lawspeaker, he supported this idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie View Post
    There was a dutch guy called Lawspeaker, he supported this idea.
    The Lawspeaker would oscillate between opposite positions on the same issue every few months, his most recent stance was for Dutch independence.

    Spoiler!

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    I miss the Lawspeaker, he always responded me in Dutch which means he accepts me as German, and he was honest. In on thread he was giving you thumbs down in another one he gave thumbs up. He is clearly a TA bedrock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    The Lawspeaker would oscillate between opposite positions on the same issue every few months, his most recent stance was for Dutch independence.
    Okay, but a cooperation on an EU-like level in a German-Dutch context (only) is not necessarly contradictory to what is a Dutch independence. To me would be of interest to what degree Dutch and Flemish would consider a German (cultural and language) context alienating or not.

    I remember when I once saw a book that was printed in Brusseles in 1550 (it were the metamophoses of Ovid in Latin and French) and the printing location was stated as "Brüssel" (in High German), so I can imagine that High German was used as the lingua franca in an HRE-wide context.

    It maybe can be mentioned that the official language of Swiss Germans is the High German, which is actually no where in Switzerland naturally spoken (!). The Swiss Germans - though politically pretty "unsocial" in their identification separate from other Germans - actually have decided to have this High German language for NOT being disconnected from a pan-German context. Imo an appreciable and thinkworthy position.

    Now, I've often the impression that Dutch/Flemish speakers are so naturally into High German, when they use it, so I wonder whether they maybe from their feelings do somewhat feel familiar with that high language. Like (other) Low Germans in Germany proper do as well. To them there is no contradiction in identity between Low German and High German. Like the relationship you have in many countries between a regional dialect and the commmon national language.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rothaer View Post
    Admittedly I here take into consideration that the population proportions of Dutch/Flemish would not be able to question the high German language.
    Is their language different at all? When they speak, it sounds me like somebody is speaking Hochdeutsch with British accent.

    Probably you dont care about my opinion but i still want to say, there should be a big only German country and Dutch are a part of it. Germany, Austria, parts of Switzerland, A-L, Flanders and in the east Prussia up to Königsberg. Why these all small fake countries reject the path of Saarland, i dont even know..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hektor12 View Post
    Is their language different at all? When they speak, it sounds me like somebody is speaking Hochdeutsch with British accent.
    Actually Dutch/Flemish is originally part of the German language continuum, see German dialects map. (In the middle ages a notable part of the German eastward settlement and the Germanisation of the eastern parts of later Germany was performed by Dutch and Flemish.) This is also why the Dutch-German border does not yield any linguistic minorities on any of the sides. It's a continous rural population that got into two different developments. Simplified you can say that the Dutch/Flemish got cut off from the High-Germanisation process and developed another own "High" language based on their dialects. Politically the Dutch (not the Flemish) got independent from the HRE in 1648.




    Quote Originally Posted by Hektor12 View Post
    Probably you don't care about my opinion but i still want to say, there should be a big only German country and Dutch are a part of it. Germany, Austria, parts of Switzerland, A-L, Flanders and in the east Prussia up to Königsberg. Why these all small fake countries reject the path of Saarland, i dont even know..
    The Swiss Germans also have a comparably long tradition of a political independence, but as for joining Austria this was decided by Austrians two times that they want to do. First in 1919 as the state of German-Austria.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republ...n_with_Germany

    And then with an overwhelmingly confirming plebiscite in 1938. At that time the unification first was performed.
    But in both cases it was forcefully forbidden by the victorious powers of WWI and WWII respectively. In 1945 also Austria as a part of the German Empire got divided into four occupation zones. They only got free in 1955 after promising to be neutral and not join with the remaining parts of the German Empire.
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    I don't think the Dutch would support it unless they get fed some decent amount of propaganda about the North vs South divide , the migration crisis etc. The Dutch would be the last to support it, despite feeling close to Germans. That's my personal opinion.

    Their elites, however, might support it much more than the population itself and it could succeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    The Lawspeaker would oscillate between opposite positions on the same issue every few months, his most recent stance was for Dutch independence.
    Any clue why he's not active anymore? After 70,000+ posts...
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