As a whole, do Greeks look more like the Italians or the Turkish?

[wvwvw]

Well, I too know too many Pontians to confirm that they're not like him. So...

Please don’t confuse Pontians with pseudo-Pontians.

Pontians and their ancestors have lived all their lives in Greece, for centuries after centuries after centuries. You may say but Pontus is in Turkey, well no, Pontus was part of Greece until very recently. It was always ruled by and populated by Greeks. It was an Independent Greek state well into the 1600s. It stayed under Ottoman rule fewer years than Greece and the Balkans.

The Pseudo-Pontians have lived always OUTSIDE GREECE and have always been ruled by non Greeks. They even talk other languages as mother tongue. Georgia, Armenia, Kazachstan were never part of Greece. Pontians may have lived as a minority there but they were married into Armenian, Georgian and other families in order to integrate and assimilate. These people may have a Greek grandmother or grandfather, but rarely they have wholly Greek ancestry. In Trabzon they preserved their identity because they were always the majority ruled always by a Greek state and only after the Pontian genocide did many who stayed adopted the Islamic identity in order to save their lives.

It’s the same with the Greeks of Albania, so long they were the majority and ruled by Greece they preserved their identity. But many were forcefully transfered to Northern Albania. Those people being the minority lost access to their identity and have married into Albanian families. Edi Rama the PM of Albania is one such example. Himself says he has a Greek grandmother, yet he is fully Albanian, pro-Turkish, anti-Greek like the typical Albanian. Now if he was forced to move to Greece, he would be like eupator, a self hating partially Greek, who hated Greece.

[wvwvw]

Anothet example are Cypriots. Cypriots consider themselves GREEK, you won’t find any saying I am Jew, I am Lebanese and what not.

On the other hand Greeks from Lebanon, Syria, may say they are Greeks, and may find the Greek ethnonym attractive, but they also consider themselves Arabs like eupator consider himself Colchian as well.

The difference between them is that Cyprus have always been part of the Greek ethnos, Syria, Lebanon, etc ceased to be for over a millenia. Cypriots have always spoke Greek and were always ruled by Greeks, but the Arabized Greeks of Lebanon have been ruled by Arabs for the past millenia and always were the minority there.

Now who is more Greek, a Cypriot who’s ancestors always been Cypriot or a Lebanese who has a Greek ancestor and speaks Arabic.

Who is more Greek a Pontian who has always lived in a Greek state in Pontus, and the last 100 years in Greece, or Pontian from Armenia who speaks Armenian and Greek, and his ancestors have always lived in an Armenian state.

[Thracian]

There are lots of Turks of Balkan descent. Therefore, I would say Turks.

Majority of Balkan Turks do not look like Greeks, even very southern shifted ones like me. IMO, our face shapes are totally different. A Greek would tell me that I don't look like a Greek from one mile away. Greeks and Italians share much more and I think Greeks look more like Italians.

[RogueState]

The overlap with Italians is larger than with Turks, although it also exist

But for instance, the "exotic dark" Greeks look rather Levantine than Turkish IMO :

[RogueState]

The overlap with Italians is larger than with Turks, although it also exist

But for instance, the "exotic dark" Greeks look rather Levantine than Turkish IMO :

[wvwvw]

All those resentful hateful new ”Pontians” have come to Greece since the 90s and many have not even Greek ancestry at all. They are Georgians, Armenians, Kazachs who may have a Greek grandmother and decided to be Pontians.

They complain time and again that the Greek government abandon them and does not recognize them as Greeks. But there is a reason the Greek government deny to such people a Greek passport.

Also the Arabized Greeks of Lebanon sent often letters to the governemnt to recognize them as Greeks. The Greek government refuses to do so for obvious reasons.

Yet that did not stop many Pontians illegally get hold a Greek passports. There was a huge scandal a decade ago, where many Armenians, Georgians bribed some people and illegally gained Greek citizenship and Greek passports on the fake ground they were ”Pontians”.

[wvwvw]

The overlap with Italians is larger than with Turks, although it also exist

But for instance, the "exotic dark" Greeks look rather Levantine than Turkish IMO :

Exotic dark Greeks look Cypriot and often they are.

The overlap with Italians is larger because both Italians and Greeks are far less mongrelized than Turks, which shows in appearance.

But both have their own look.

[RogueState]

The topic of Russopontians fascinates me for several years, I'm amazed how they retained Greek identity so far away from mainland Greece for centuries; except Jews, I don't know a "diasporan" that has retained its own identity abroad for centuries

[Zeno]

The overlap with Italians is larger than with Turks, although it also exist

But for instance, the "exotic dark" Greeks look rather Levantine than Turkish IMO :

He's just a typical Dinaro-Med, as classified here, and certified by his profile outlook, nothing exotic much:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...k-player/page2



He wouldn't be at all out of place in Italy, since Dinaro-Med is quite common in Italy, as it is in Greece. Simple stuff.

[RogueState]

He's just a typical Dinaro-Med, as classified here, and certified by his profile outlook, nothing exotic much:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...k-player/page2



He wouldn't be at all out of place in Italy, since Dinaro-Med is quite common in Italy, as it is in Greece. Simple stuff.

Agree with Dinaro-Med classification, but I wanted to say that besides Greek, I would have rather guess him as Levantine (or Cyprus first) before Turkish or Italian