As a whole, do Greeks look more like the Italians or the Turkish?

[Zeno]

I didn't say they weren't Greeks, I said they were late Medieval entries, which they were, sorry, but it's the historical truth, what can I possibly do about it. If you read Byzantine sources, you will see this truth, the Byzantines didn't have any anxieties and called a spade a spade. I believe that the truth sets you free, I find the regurgitation of outdated 19th century narratives as comical.

And there is substantial West Asian in both Peloponnesians and the islands, just have a look at their commercial results and/or their ADMIXTURE calculators. There's also qpAdms floating around lately, islanders specifically are upwards 50-75% West Asian, not my problem again you find it as not acceptable, it's the genetic truth that correlates perfectly to their ethnographic past and present.

Cite the particular texts from the so-called "Byzantine sources" that say that mainlander Greeks aren't Greeks. Because I can cite a lot more for the exact opposite. When you say "mediaeval entries" it's a sly and very cowardly way to just withdraw your initial statements, in which you call us "non-Greeks" especially in previous attacks on me and other members, calling us "OWD" (LOL).

Also, what commercial results show "significant" admixture from West Asia amongst the Peloponnesians? Again, who says that? I've seen many of them myself, being Peloponnesian myself. The maximum I've seen was quite literally 10% West Asian on a compatible ancestry test. Nothing more. And that percentage from everything that I've seen is rather not commonplace. For islanders, it might just be a tad bit more, but not 50-75%:


https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...edMatch-result

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_ @ 5.284865
2 Greek_Athens_ @ 5.521362
3 Ashkenazi_ @ 5.665220
4 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.833544
5 Cretan_ @ 5.883938
6 Romanian_Jew_ @ 6.251630
7 Central_Greek_ @ 6.543029
8 Italian_South_ @ 6.702876
9 Sicilian_West_ @ 7.025340
10 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.131529
11 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 7.223289
12 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 7.377055
13 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 7.624095
14 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain_ @ 7.933728
15 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 8.058889
16 Greek_Thessaloniki_ @ 8.773165
17 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 8.977530
18 Greek_Thessaly_ @ 9.025526
19 Sicilian_Center_ @ 9.112998
20 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 9.194235

Eurogenes K15:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.63
2 West_Med 15.85
3 Atlantic 14.07
4 West_Asian 13.05
5 North_Sea 12.44
6 Eastern_Euro 7.16
7 Baltic 2.6
8 Red_Sea 2.47
9 South_Asian 1.1
10 Northeast_African 0.33
11 Oceanian 0.16
12 Southeast_Asian 0.14

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...Aegean-islands

MDLP K23:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 38.96
2 European_Early_Farmers 20.63
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 15.03
4 Near_East 9.63
5 South_Central_Asian 8.14
6 North_African 4.59
7 South_Indian 1.11

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_ @ 5.284865
2 Greek_Athens_ @ 5.521362
3 Ashkenazi_ @ 5.665220
4 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.833544
5 Cretan_ @ 5.883938
6 Romanian_Jew_ @ 6.251630
7 Central_Greek_ @ 6.543029
8 Italian_South_ @ 6.702876
9 Sicilian_West_ @ 7.025340
10 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.131529
11 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 7.223289
12 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 7.377055
13 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 7.624095
14 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain_ @ 7.933728
15 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 8.058889
16 Greek_Thessaloniki_ @ 8.773165
17 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 8.977530
18 Greek_Thessaly_ @ 9.025526
19 Sicilian_Center_ @ 9.112998
20 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 9.194235

Eurogenes K13:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.63
2 North_Atlantic 20.14
3 West_Med 19.56
4 West_Asian 13
5 Baltic 9.36
6 Red_Sea 2.43
7 South_Asian 1.48
8 East_Asian 0.37
9 Amerindian 0.35
10 Northeast_African 0.33
11 Oceanian 0.31
12 Siberian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 5.65
2 Italian_Abruzzo 5.8
3 East_Sicilian 5.81
4 West_Sicilian 5.91
5 South_Italian 6.13
6 Ashkenazi 6.39
7 Greek_Thessaly 8.99
8 Italian_Jewish 10.16
9 Sephardic_Jewish 10.63
10 Tuscan 10.81
11 Algerian_Jewish 11.48
12 Tunisian_Jewish 14.79
13 Libyan_Jewish 15.61
14 North_Italian 17.01
15 Bulgarian 17.04
16 Cyprian 17.69
17 Romanian 18.89
18 Lebanese_Muslim 20.93
19 Turkish 21.69
20 Syrian 22.41

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...islands-Greece

1.

Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 36.64
2 Atlantic_Med 23.68
3 North_European 17.07
4 Southwest_Asian 10.46
5 Gedrosia 6.33
6 Northwest_African 2.89
7 Siberian 1.85
8 South_Asian 0.58
9 East_African 0.38
10 Sub_Saharan 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 6.18
2 Greek (Dodecad) 6.36
3 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 7.15
4 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 8.07
5 Sicilian (Dodecad) 8.22
6 C_Italian (Dodecad) 11.56
7 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 12.32
8 O_Italian (Dodecad) 13.01
9 Tuscan (HGDP) 15.17
10 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 15.34
11 TSI30 (Metspalu) 16.47
12 Turkish (Dodecad) 16.67
13 Cypriots (Behar) 17.9
14 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 18.12
15 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 18.56
16 Turks (Behar) 19.19
17 Romanians (Behar) 19.86
18 Lebanese (Behar) 21.71
19 N_Italian (Dodecad) 21.97
20 North_Italian (HGDP) 23.67

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.7% Greek (Dodecad) + 15.3% Iranians (Behar) @ 3.09
2 83.8% Greek (Dodecad) + 16.2% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 3.15
3 84% Greek (Dodecad) + 16% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 3.18
4 84.9% Greek (Dodecad) + 15.1% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) @ 3.35
5 84% Greek (Dodecad) + 16% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 3.44
6 73.9% Cypriots (Behar) + 26.1% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 3.47
7 69% Cypriots (Behar) + 31% German (Dodecad) @ 3.51
8 82.6% Greek (Dodecad) + 17.4% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 3.53
9 78.2% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.8% Turks (Behar) @ 3.56
10 90.7% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 9.3% Chuvashs (Behar) @ 3.64
11 73.9% Cypriots (Behar) + 26.1% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 3.68
12 91.1% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 8.9% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.71
13 60.2% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 39.8% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 3.76
14 80.8% Greek (Dodecad) + 19.2% Lebanese (Behar) @ 3.81
15 76.2% Greek (Dodecad) + 23.8% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 3.82
16 91.7% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 8.3% Russian (HGDP) @ 3.89
17 78.7% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 21.3% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 3.9
18 69.8% Cypriots (Behar) + 30.2% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 3.93
19 85.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 14.5% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 3.94
20 88.8% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 11.2% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 3.96


2.

Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 38.39
2 Atlantic_Med 24.71
3 North_European 17.28
4 Southwest_Asian 10.95
5 Gedrosia 4.26
6 Northwest_African 2.24
7 Siberian 1.28
8 East_African 0.52
9 South_Asian 0.36
10 Sub_Saharan 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Dodecad) 4.75
2 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 4.92
3 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 5.9
4 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 7.52
5 Sicilian (Dodecad) 7.58
6 C_Italian (Dodecad) 11.27
7 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 12.2
8 O_Italian (Dodecad) 13.32
9 Tuscan (HGDP) 14.87
10 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 15.64
11 TSI30 (Metspalu) 16.32
12 Cypriots (Behar) 17.09
13 Turkish (Dodecad) 17.43
14 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 18.34
15 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 18.53
16 Romanians (Behar) 20.1
17 Turks (Behar) 20.19
18 N_Italian (Dodecad) 22.19
19 Lebanese (Behar) 22.27
20 North_Italian (HGDP) 23.66

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.8% Greek (Dodecad) + 16.2% Lebanese (Behar) @ 2.05
2 85.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 14.5% Druze (HGDP) @ 2.28
3 87.9% Greek (Dodecad) + 12.1% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.29
4 80.9% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 19.1% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 2.38
5 87.6% Greek (Dodecad) + 12.4% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 2.39
6 86.6% Greek (Dodecad) + 13.4% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.41
7 51.2% Greek (Dodecad) + 48.8% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 2.42
8 83.1% Greek (Dodecad) + 16.9% Turks (Behar) @ 2.43
9 86.7% Greek (Dodecad) + 13.3% Jordanians (Behar) @ 2.43
10 87.1% Greek (Dodecad) + 12.9% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.44
11 81.2% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 18.8% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.46
12 87.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 12.5% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.47
13 81% Greek (Dodecad) + 19% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 2.49
14 82.5% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 17.5% Romanians (Behar) @ 2.53
15 87.6% Greek (Dodecad) + 12.4% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 2.54
16 87.7% Greek (Dodecad) + 12.3% Palestinian (HGDP) @ 2.64
17 86.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 13.5% Syrians (Behar) @ 2.68
18 87.8% Greek (Dodecad) + 12.2% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) @ 2.72
19 87.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 12.5% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 2.74
20 92.7% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 7.3% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.78

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-(North-Aegean)

Laconia:

Eurogenes:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 21.59
2 West_Med 17.5
3 West_Asian 17.04
4 Atlantic 13.78
5 North_Sea 13.48
6 Baltic 9
7 Eastern_Euro 4
8 Red_Sea 3.35
9 Oceanian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 5.48
2 Central_Greek 6.04
3 Italian_Abruzzo 6.04
4 Greek 6.81
5 East_Sicilian 7.53
6 Tuscan 8.82
7 Ashkenazi 9.05
8 South_Italian 9.48
9 West_Sicilian 9.76
10 Bulgarian 10.88
11 Romanian 12.53
12 North_Italian 13.92
13 Italian_Jewish 14.68
14 Sephardic_Jewish 15.64
15 Serbian 16.08
16 Algerian_Jewish 16.52
17 Tunisian_Jewish 19.84
18 Turkish 19.92
19 Libyan_Jewish 20.77
20 Cyprian 20.77

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.2% Central_Greek + 15.8% East_German @ 3.53
2 90.6% Greek_Thessaly + 9.4% Abhkasian @ 3.67
3 89.7% Greek_Thessaly + 10.3% Georgian @ 3.67
4 71.6% Central_Greek + 28.4% Romanian @ 3.73
5 84.4% Central_Greek + 15.6% West_German @ 3.75
6 89.6% Greek_Thessaly + 10.4% Ossetian @ 3.77
7 82.9% Central_Greek + 17.1% Hungarian @ 3.78
8 87.9% Central_Greek + 12.1% Swedish @ 3.78
9 86.5% Central_Greek + 13.5% North_German @ 3.79
10 88% Central_Greek + 12% Norwegian @ 3.8
11 87.5% Central_Greek + 12.5% North_Dutch @ 3.82
12 86.9% Central_Greek + 13.1% Southwest_English @ 3.83
13 84.8% Central_Greek + 15.2% South_Dutch @ 3.84
14 88.5% Central_Greek + 11.5% West_Norwegian @ 3.84
15 54.4% Greek_Thessaly + 45.6% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.86
16 88.3% Central_Greek + 11.7% Orcadian @ 3.92
17 90.1% Greek_Thessaly + 9.9% North_Ossetian @ 3.92
18 82.1% Central_Greek + 17.9% Moldavian @ 3.92
19 87.7% Central_Greek + 12.3% Danish @ 3.93
20 88.3% Central_Greek + 11.7% North_Swedish @ 3.96


Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 33.78
2 Atlantic_Med 29.22
3 North_European 20.12
4 Southwest_Asian 9.23
5 Gedrosia 6.64
6 Northwest_African 0.64
7 East_Asian 0.37

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Dodecad) 4.67
2 C_Italian (Dodecad) 6.54
3 O_Italian (Dodecad) 6.6
4 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 8.89
5 Tuscan (HGDP) 9.09
6 Sicilian (Dodecad) 9.19
7 TSI30 (Metspalu) 10.31
8 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 10.64
9 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 10.96
10 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 15.33
11 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 15.54
12 N_Italian (Dodecad) 15.58
13 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 16.05
14 Romanians (Behar) 16.64
15 North_Italian (HGDP) 17.36
16 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 18.4
17 Turkish (Dodecad) 22.37
18 Cypriots (Behar) 22.98
19 Turks (Behar) 24.95
20 Baleares (1000Genomes) 26.27

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.3% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 15.7% Armenians (Behar) @ 2.06
2 83.8% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 16.2% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 2.19
3 84.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 15.8% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) @ 2.23
4 78.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 21.8% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 2.31
5 84.1% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 15.9% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.33
6 60.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 39.5% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.38
7 88.7% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 11.3% Georgians (Behar) @ 2.57
8 80.3% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 19.7% Turks (Behar) @ 2.59
9 88.1% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 11.9% Abhkasians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.63
10 84.6% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 15.4% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 2.65
11 84.7% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 15.3% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.68
12 66% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 34% Romanians (Behar) @ 2.69
13 63.4% Cypriots (Behar) + 36.6% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 2.69
14 62.5% Cypriots (Behar) + 37.5% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.74
15 62.2% Cypriots (Behar) + 37.8% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 2.74
16 78.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21.5% Hungarians (Behar) @ 2.75
17 79.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 20.8% Cypriots (Behar) @ 2.78
18 62.6% Cypriots (Behar) + 37.4% English (Dodecad) @ 2.79
19 60.5% Cypriots (Behar) + 39.5% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 2.83
20 64.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 35.8% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 2.83


MDLP K23:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 39.84
2 European_Early_Farmers 23.30
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 17.83
4 Near_East 7.19
5 South_Central_Asian 5.43
6 North_African 2.34
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.67
8 Tungus-Altaic 1.16


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Central_Greek @ 2.243784
2 Greek_Peloponnesos @ 4.041044
3 Albanian_Tirana @ 4.117178
4 Greek_Thessaly @ 4.360034
5 Greek_Thessaloniki @ 4.713014
6 Greek @ 4.919817
7 Greek_Athens @ 5.161238
8 Greek_Northwest @ 5.184501
9 Ashkenazi @ 6.728237
10 Kosovar @ 6.780749
11 Greek_Macedonia @ 6.840512
12 Italian_South @ 7.861226
13 Romanian_Jew @ 7.973964
14 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain @ 8.081149
15 Greek_Phokaia @ 8.119470
16 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 8.421227
17 Sicilian_Siracusa @ 8.738112
18 Sicilian_West @ 9.700258
19 Sicilian_Center @ 9.782557
20 Sicilian_East @ 9.924749

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_Athens +50% Greek_Northwest @ 1.570466


PuntDNA-L:

# Population Percent
1 Anatolian_NF 39.32
2 Caucasus_HG 25.87
3 European_HG 23.03
4 Near_East 8.88
5 South_Asian 1.28
6 South_African_HG 0.74
7 Oceanian 0.55
8 Amerindian 0.33

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek 2.4
2 Albanian 3.4
3 Tuscan 4.49
4 Ashkenazi_Jew 8.4
5 Bulgarian 8.61
6 Sicilian_West 8.73
7 Sicilian_East 9.54
8 Italian_Bergamo 12.82
9 Romanian 14.66
10 Turkish_Aydin 15.23
11 Croatian 15.25
12 Spanish_Southwest 16.37
13 Turkish_Jew 16.53
14 Moroccan_Jew 16.78
15 Spanish_Canaries 16.86
16 French 17.25
17 Belgian 17.84
18 Spanish_Northeast 18.55
19 Dutch_South 19.09
20 German_South 19.38

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62% French + 38% Iranian_Jew @ 1.42
2 52.2% German_South + 47.8% Cypriot @ 1.47
3 51.3% Utahn_European + 48.7% Cypriot @ 1.5
4 59.1% French + 40.9% Assyrian @ 1.63
5 54.3% Belgian + 45.7% Cypriot @ 1.7
6 51.3% Cypriot + 48.7% English_South @ 1.77
7 88.8% Albanian + 11.2% Lebanese @ 1.78
8 70.9% Ashkenazi_Jew + 29.1% Utahn_European @ 1.78
9 73% Ashkenazi_Jew + 27% English_South @ 1.79
10 90.5% Albanian + 9.5% Palestinian @ 1.8
11 98.4% Greek + 1.6% BedouinB @ 1.84
12 97.6% Greek + 2.4% Bengali_Muslim @ 1.86
13 91.2% Albanian + 8.8% BedouinA @ 1.86
14 90.2% Albanian + 9.8% Syrian @ 1.87
15 70.2% Ashkenazi_Jew + 29.8% German_South @ 1.87
16 97.6% Greek + 2.4% Saudi @ 1.88
17 91.1% Albanian + 8.9% Jordanian @ 1.88
18 74.3% Ashkenazi_Jew + 25.7% Irish @ 1.88
19 97.8% Greek + 2.2% Keralam @ 1.88
20 97.9% Greek + 2.1% Tamil_Nadu @ 1.88


Eurasia K9:

# Population Percent
1 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 31.63
2 WHG 25.62
3 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 19.53
4 SW_Asian 15.37
5 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 7.6
6 SE_Asian 0.25

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek 2.01
2 Albanian 3.93
3 Tuscan 4.94
4 Sicilian 7.12
5 Bulgarian 8.8
6 Maltese 9.72
7 Spanish 14.69
8 Croatian 18.37
9 French 18.91
10 Turkish 19.92
11 French_South 20.5
12 Hungarian 21.32
13 Cypriot 21.58
14 Sardinian 22.63
15 Kumyk 22.81
16 Adygei 23.09
17 English 24.09
18 Chechen 24.65
19 Scottish 25.13
20 Czech 26.17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.5% Tuscan + 8.5% KOTIAS @ 1.53
2 97.1% Greek + 2.9% Srubnaya @ 1.64
3 98.9% Greek + 1.1% Karelia_HG @ 1.69
4 98.9% Greek + 1.1% Samara_HG @ 1.69
5 97.6% Greek + 2.4% RISE_baAndrov @ 1.72
6 93.5% Albanian + 6.5% KOTIAS @ 1.73
7 98.1% Greek + 1.9% KOTIAS @ 1.75
8 97.8% Greek + 2.2% RISE_baSin @ 1.78
9 97.4% Greek + 2.6% RISE_baUne @ 1.78
10 97.7% Greek + 2.3% Scythian_IA @ 1.79
11 98.1% Greek + 1.9% RISE_baMezh @ 1.8
12 97.5% Greek + 2.5% RISE_baSca @ 1.81
13 99% Greek + 1% MA1 @ 1.82
14 97.7% Greek + 2.3% Tajik_Pomiri @ 1.82
15 98.4% Greek + 1.6% Kurd_SE @ 1.84
16 97.2% Greek + 2.8% Lezgin @ 1.84
17 96.9% Greek + 3.1% Chechen @ 1.85
18 98.5% Greek + 1.5% Kalash @ 1.86
19 98.3% Greek + 1.7% Pashtun_Afghan @ 1.88
20 99.2% Greek + 0.8% SATSURBILA @ 1.89

Chiote:

Eurogenes K15:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.55
2 West_Asian 17.82
3 West_Med 15.08
4 Atlantic 10.86
5 North_Sea 9.28
6 Red_Sea 5.39
7 Baltic 5.29
8 Eastern_Euro 2.52
9 Northeast_African 1.19
10 Oceanian 1.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.28
2 Central_Greek 5.67
3 East_Sicilian 6.04
4 Ashkenazi 7.14
5 Italian_Jewish 7.41
6 Sephardic_Jewish 7.96
7 Italian_Abruzzo 8.54
8 Algerian_Jewish 9.51
9 West_Sicilian 10.14
10 Cyprian 10.84
11 Tunisian_Jewish 10.97
12 Greek 11.78
13 Greek_Thessaly 12.16
14 Libyan_Jewish 12.43
15 Lebanese_Muslim 13.46
16 Turkish 14.9
17 Syrian 14.94
18 Tuscan 15.14
19 Samaritan 17.66
20 Jordanian 18.28

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.7% Central_Greek + 21.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.22
2 72% Central_Greek + 28% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.34
3 79.4% Central_Greek + 20.6% Kurdish_Jewish @ 2.39
4 76.5% Cyprian + 23.5% West_German @ 2.55
5 78.5% Central_Greek + 21.5% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.6
6 79.8% Central_Greek + 20.2% Iranian_Jewish @ 2.65
7 79% Cyprian + 21% Southwest_English @ 2.66
8 79.7% Cyprian + 20.3% North_Dutch @ 2.69
9 80.3% Cyprian + 19.7% Orcadian @ 2.76
10 78.7% Cyprian + 21.3% North_German @ 2.77
11 79.3% Cyprian + 20.7% Southeast_English @ 2.77
12 78.5% Central_Greek + 21.5% Assyrian @ 2.77
13 76.9% Cyprian + 23.1% South_Dutch @ 2.79
14 77.2% East_Sicilian + 22.8% Assyrian @ 2.82
15 79.9% Cyprian + 20.1% Irish @ 2.82
16 79.7% Cyprian + 20.3% Danish @ 2.88
17 80.2% Cyprian + 19.8% West_Scottish @ 2.88
18 80.4% Cyprian + 19.6% Norwegian @ 2.9
19 80.9% Cyprian + 19.1% West_Norwegian @ 2.91
20 80.3% Cyprian + 19.7% Swedish @ 2.95


Dodecad K12b:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 37.32
2 Atlantic_Med 24.67
3 Southwest_Asian 13.39
4 North_European 11.86
5 Gedrosia 8.58
6 Northwest_African 3.84
7 Siberian 0.34

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 5.87
2 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 5.94
3 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 6.34
4 Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.49
5 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 7.12
6 Greek (Dodecad) 10.49
7 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 10.63
8 C_Italian (Dodecad) 12.96
9 Cypriots (Behar) 14.14
10 Turkish (Dodecad) 15.6
11 O_Italian (Dodecad) 15.89
12 Tuscan (HGDP) 16.93
13 Lebanese (Behar) 17.82
14 Turks (Behar) 17.99
15 TSI30 (Metspalu) 18.18
16 Druze (HGDP) 20.85
17 Syrians (Behar) 20.91
18 Jordanians (Behar) 22.26
19 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 22.29
20 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 23.68

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.6% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.4% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 1.82
2 80.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.1% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 1.9
3 66.9% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 33.1% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.04
4 78.3% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21.7% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.13
5 81.4% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.6% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 2.14
6 65.6% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 34.4% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 2.29
7 82.4% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17.6% Iranians (Behar) @ 2.39
8 82.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17.3% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.49
9 83% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.5
10 80.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.5% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.56
11 58.2% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 41.8% Lebanese (Behar) @ 2.65
12 56.9% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 43.1% Druze (HGDP) @ 2.7
13 83.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 16.5% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 2.72
14 93% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 7% Brahui (HGDP) @ 2.72
15 91.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 8.2% Balochi (HGDP) @ 2.79
16 92.4% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 7.6% Brahui (HGDP) @ 2.8
17 91.4% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 8.6% Makrani (HGDP) @ 2.81
18 92.2% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 7.8% Makrani (HGDP) @ 2.83
19 92.5% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 7.5% Balochi (HGDP) @ 2.84
20 65.5% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 34.5% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.88


PuntDNA-L:
# Population Percent
1 Anatolian_NF 40.15
2 Caucasus_HG 29.28
3 European_HG 16
4 Near_East 10.95
5 Siberian 1.26
6 Sub-Saharan 0.97
7 Oceanian 0.81
8 South_Asian 0.58

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi_Jew 2.37
2 Sicilian_East 4.12
3 Sicilian_West 6.4
4 Greek 8.25
5 Tuscan 9.1
6 Albanian 9.97
7 Turkish_Aydin 11.6
8 Turkish_Jew 12.06
9 Moroccan_Jew 12.18
10 Cypriot 13.73
11 Bulgarian 15.49
12 Turkish 15.87
13 Turkish_Kayseri 16.23
14 Libyan_Jew 16.67
15 Lebanese 17.29
16 Tunisian_Jew 17.95
17 Assyrian 18.27
18 Druze 18.48
19 Kurdish 18.55
20 Italian_Bergamo 18.95

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.2% Tuscan + 29.8% Iranian_Jew @ 1.57
2 65.2% Albanian + 34.8% Druze @ 1.66
3 69.5% Greek + 30.5% Druze @ 1.71
4 52.8% Italian_Bergamo + 47.2% Iranian_Jew @ 1.75
5 54.1% Iranian_Jew + 45.9% Spanish_Northeast @ 1.77
6 87.9% Ashkenazi_Jew + 12.1% Turkish_Aydin @ 1.77
7 67.1% Tuscan + 32.9% Assyrian @ 1.79
8 95.9% Ashkenazi_Jew + 4.1% Tajik_Pomiri @ 1.81
9 97.9% Ashkenazi_Jew + 2.1% Selkup @ 1.83
10 98.6% Ashkenazi_Jew + 1.4% Nganasan @ 1.86
11 52% Armenian + 48% Spanish_Southwest @ 1.88
12 96.4% Ashkenazi_Jew + 3.6% Turkmen @ 1.88
13 96% Ashkenazi_Jew + 4% Uzbek @ 1.89
14 94.5% Ashkenazi_Jew + 5.5% Nogai @ 1.9
15 94.8% Ashkenazi_Jew + 5.2% Chechen @ 1.9
16 98.2% Ashkenazi_Jew + 1.8% Dolgan @ 1.92
17 98.4% Ashkenazi_Jew + 1.6% Yakut @ 1.94
18 57.3% Druze + 42.7% French @ 1.94
19 97.3% Ashkenazi_Jew + 2.7% Burusho @ 1.95
20 94.4% Ashkenazi_Jew + 5.6% Balkar @ 1.96


Eurasia K9 ASI:
# Population Percent
1 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 30.97
2 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 23.76
3 WHG 20.26
4 SW_Asian 19.48
5 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 4.3
6 SE_Asian 0.83
7 Ancestral_South_Indian 0.4

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 4.84
2 Maltese 7.29
3 Greek 7.53
4 Albanian 10.53
5 Tuscan 10.89
6 Turkish 13.45
7 Cypriot 14.23
8 Bulgarian 15.97
9 Kumyk 18.86
10 Adygei 18.94
11 Armenian 19.55
12 Lebanese 19.77
13 Druze 20.23
14 Chechen 21.15
15 Azeri 21.17
16 Spanish 21.65
17 Georgian_Jew 21.66
18 Syrian 21.72
19 Georgian 21.79
20 Jordanian 22.53

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.3% Tuscan + 35.7% Armenian @ 1.21
2 72.5% Greek + 27.5% Armenian @ 1.39
3 65.2% Albanian + 34.8% Armenian @ 1.77
4 76.2% Greek + 23.8% Iranian_Jew @ 1.78
5 83.8% Sicilian + 16.2% Abkhasian @ 1.78
6 94.6% Sicilian + 5.4% SATSURBILA @ 1.86
7 91.3% Sicilian + 8.7% KOTIAS @ 1.89
8 83% Sicilian + 17% Georgian @ 1.9
9 86.6% Sicilian + 13.4% Kurd_C @ 2.04
10 74.9% Greek + 25.1% Georgian_Jew @ 2.07
11 84.2% Sicilian + 15.8% Azeri_Dagestan @ 2.1
12 81.3% Sicilian + 18.7% Adygei @ 2.16
13 68.7% Tuscan + 31.3% Iranian_Jew @ 2.21
14 66.9% Tuscan + 33.1% Georgian_Jew @ 2.27
15 91.7% Sicilian + 8.3% Brahui @ 2.27
16 67% Tuscan + 33% Georgian @ 2.28
17 91.4% Sicilian + 8.6% Balochi @ 2.33
18 68.4% Tuscan + 31.6% Kurd_N @ 2.35
19 83.3% Sicilian + 16.7% Chechen @ 2.38
20 91.4% Sicilian + 8.6% Makrani @ 2.43

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...Aegean-islands

Dodecad:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 40.13
2 Atlantic_Med 25.91
3 North_European 13.48
4 Southwest_Asian 13.15
5 Gedrosia 5.71
6 Northwest_African 0.7
7 East_African 0.5
8 Southeast_Asian 0.38
9 Siberian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 4.64
2 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 5.42
3 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 5.49
4 Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.3
5 Greek (Dodecad) 7.83
6 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 9.16
7 C_Italian (Dodecad) 12.31
8 Cypriots (Behar) 13.44
9 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 13.53
10 O_Italian (Dodecad) 15.54
11 Tuscan (HGDP) 15.93
12 Turkish (Dodecad) 16.22
13 TSI30 (Metspalu) 17.53
14 Turks (Behar) 19.09
15 Lebanese (Behar) 19.8
16 Druze (HGDP) 21.49
17 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 22.62
18 Syrians (Behar) 22.67
19 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 22.87
20 N_Italian (Dodecad) 24.03

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.7% Cypriots (Behar) + 46.3% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 1.63
2 78.6% Cypriots (Behar) + 21.4% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 1.86
3 77.9% Cypriots (Behar) + 22.1% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 1.95
4 75.3% Cypriots (Behar) + 24.7% French (HGDP) @ 1.98
5 78.2% Cypriots (Behar) + 21.8% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 1.98
6 78.2% Cypriots (Behar) + 21.8% English (Dodecad) @ 1.99
7 77.7% Cypriots (Behar) + 22.3% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 2.08
8 78.4% Cypriots (Behar) + 21.6% Cornwall (1000Genomes) @ 2.11
9 77% Cypriots (Behar) + 23% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 2.14
10 78.6% Cypriots (Behar) + 21.4% British (Dodecad) @ 2.15
11 79.1% Cypriots (Behar) + 20.9% Irish (Dodecad) @ 2.25
12 79.2% Cypriots (Behar) + 20.8% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 2.28
13 79.3% Cypriots (Behar) + 20.7% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 2.28
14 64% Greek (Dodecad) + 36% Cypriots (Behar) @ 2.42
15 79% Cypriots (Behar) + 21% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 2.46
16 74.4% Greek (Dodecad) + 25.6% Druze (HGDP) @ 2.69
17 80.5% Cypriots (Behar) + 19.5% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 2.88
18 76.8% Cypriots (Behar) + 23.2% German (Dodecad) @ 2.92
19 64.5% Cypriots (Behar) + 35.5% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.93
20 78.1% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.9% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 3.03


MDLP:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 41.28
2 European_Early_Farmers 23.22
3 Near_East 11.81
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 9.45
5 South_Central_Asian 5.92
6 North_African 3.06
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.77
8 South_Indian 1.03


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Smyrna @ 4.434649
2 Cretan @ 4.689856
3 Greek_Islands @ 4.816885
4 Italian_South @ 5.548266
5 Romanian_Jew @ 5.701836
6 Sicilian_Center @ 6.125081
7 Sicilian_Siracusa @ 6.158867
8 Sicilian_East @ 6.192478
9 Greek_Athens @ 6.755655
10 Greek_Phokaia @ 6.862266
11 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 6.906408
12 Ashkenazi @ 7.351294
13 French_Jew @ 7.674810
14 Sicilian_Agrigento @ 8.072715
15 Greek @ 8.090850
16 Sicilian_West @ 8.230726
17 Sicilian_Trapani @ 8.878284
18 Italian_Jew @ 9.197726
19 Turk_Jew @ 9.504438
20 Maltese @ 9.609796



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_Smyrna +50% Sicilian_Siracusa @ 2.128559

Eurogenes:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 33.65
2 West_Med 17.74
3 West_Asian 16.51
4 Atlantic 14.8
5 North_Sea 5.68
6 Red_Sea 4.46
7 Baltic 3.73
8 Eastern_Euro 3.41

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.22
2 Sephardic_Jewish 6.45
3 Italian_Jewish 6.87
4 Algerian_Jewish 7.6
5 Central_Greek 7.67
6 East_Sicilian 7.97
7 West_Sicilian 9.23
8 Italian_Abruzzo 9.49
9 Ashkenazi 10.12
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.16
11 Cyprian 10.44
12 Greek 12.35
13 Libyan_Jewish 13.63
14 Greek_Thessaly 14.68
15 Lebanese_Muslim 14.97
16 Tuscan 15.24
17 Syrian 16.83
18 Turkish 17.29
19 Samaritan 17.96
20 Lebanese_Christian 18.91

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.3% Cyprian + 19.7% French_Basque @ 2.91
2 74.6% Cyprian + 25.4% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.03
3 73.6% Cyprian + 26.4% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.21
4 76.3% Cyprian + 23.7% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.22
5 77.1% Cyprian + 22.9% Southwest_French @ 3.24
6 75.3% Cyprian + 24.7% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.33
7 76.8% Cyprian + 23.2% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.55
8 53.5% West_Sicilian + 46.5% Cyprian @ 3.55
9 75.3% Cyprian + 24.7% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.58
10 68.5% Cyprian + 31.5% North_Italian @ 3.64
11 74.3% Cyprian + 25.7% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.68
12 60.3% Cyprian + 39.7% Tuscan @ 3.83
13 73.8% South_Italian + 26.2% Cyprian @ 3.93
14 75.5% Cyprian + 24.5% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.95
15 52.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 47.2% Cyprian @ 3.96
16 74.4% Cyprian + 25.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.03
17 86% South_Italian + 14% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.14
18 75% Cyprian + 25% Portuguese @ 4.23
19 86.1% South_Italian + 13.9% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.29
20 88.2% South_Italian + 11.8% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.4


PuntDNA:
# Population Percent
1 Anatolian_NF 41
2 Caucasus_HG 27.98
3 European_HG 15.26
4 Near_East 12.64
5 South_Asian 2.02
6 Oceanian 0.95
7 Siberian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi_Jew 2.65
2 Sicilian_East 3.2
3 Sicilian_West 5.25
4 Greek 9.22
5 Tuscan 9.59
6 Turkish_Jew 10.09
7 Moroccan_Jew 10.51
8 Albanian 10.97
9 Cypriot 12.8
10 Turkish_Aydin 13.19
11 Libyan_Jew 14.79
12 Tunisian_Jew 15.91
13 Lebanese 16.32
14 Bulgarian 16.58
15 Turkish 16.72
16 Turkish_Kayseri 17.1
17 Druze 17.92
18 Assyrian 18.07
19 Kurdish 19.18
20 Italian_Bergamo 19.28

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.1% Assyrian + 33.9% Basque_Spaniard @ 0.94
2 63.1% Assyrian + 36.9% French_South @ 1.23
3 59.4% Iranian_Jew + 40.6% French_South @ 1.41
4 62.6% Iranian_Jew + 37.4% Basque_Spaniard @ 1.47
5 54.4% Iranian_Jew + 45.6% Spanish_Northeast @ 1.87
6 97.9% Ashkenazi_Jew + 2.1% Paniya @ 1.91
7 97.8% Ashkenazi_Jew + 2.2% Hakkipikki @ 1.98
8 51.2% Iranian_Jew + 48.8% Spanish_Southwest @ 2.01
9 66.6% Cypriot + 33.4% French @ 2.08
10 97.7% Ashkenazi_Jew + 2.3% Tamil_Nadu @ 2.1
11 68.8% Cypriot + 31.2% German_South @ 2.11
12 58.6% Druze + 41.4% French @ 2.14
13 65.6% Tuscan + 34.4% Druze @ 2.15
14 97.7% Ashkenazi_Jew + 2.3% Keralam @ 2.16
15 67.5% Cypriot + 32.5% Belgian @ 2.2
16 97.7% Ashkenazi_Jew + 2.3% Gujarati @ 2.22
17 97.7% Ashkenazi_Jew + 2.3% Bengali_Muslim @ 2.22
18 69.4% Cypriot + 30.6% Utahn_European @ 2.23
19 95.4% Sicilian_East + 4.6% Haryana_Jatt @ 2.26
20 95% Sicilian_East + 5% Pakistan_Pashtun @ 2.26


GedrosiaDNA:
# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 31.34
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 24.05
3 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 17.91
4 NATUFIAN 16
5 EHG 4.21
6 SHG_WHG 3.78
7 POLAR 1.38
8 SIBERIAN 0.73
9 PAPUAN 0.6
10 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 6.51
2 Jew_Ashkenazi 8.17
3 Jew_Moroccan 9.06
4 Italian_South 9.21
5 Cypriot 9.72
6 Greek 10.18
7 Turkish_Istanbul 12.44
8 Turkish 12.45
9 Albanian 12.77
10 Jew_Tunisian 14.19
11 Turkish_Adana 14.39
12 Turkish_Kayseri 14.78
13 Jew_Libyan 14.86
14 Turkish_Balekesir 15.06
15 Turkish_Aydin 15.77
16 Lebanese 16.54
17 Turkish_Trabzon 17.05
18 Bulgarian 17.98
19 Armenian 18.86
20 Druze 18.91

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 57.4% Cypriot + 42.6% Albanian @ 3.27
2 91.2% Sicilian + 8.8% Iran_ChL @ 3.37
3 51.3% Cypriot + 48.7% Greek @ 3.72
4 62.9% Sicilian + 37.1% Cypriot @ 3.84
5 89.1% Sicilian + 10.9% Iran_recent @ 3.89
6 64.7% Turkish_Adana + 35.3% Sardinian @ 3.91
7 81.2% Italian_South + 18.8% Armenia_ChL @ 4.06
8 76.7% Sicilian + 23.3% Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.14
9 86% Jew_Ashkenazi + 14% Anatolia_ChL @ 4.15
10 66.6% Cypriot + 33.4% Bulgarian @ 4.2
11 80.6% Sicilian + 19.4% Assyrian @ 4.21
12 80.4% Sicilian + 19.6% Jew_iraqi @ 4.28
13 64.1% Turkish_Kayseri + 35.9% Sardinian @ 4.33
14 88.3% Sicilian + 11.7% Armenia_MLBA @ 4.36
15 57.9% Armenian + 42.1% Sardinian @ 4.36
16 94.7% Sicilian + 5.3% Iran_LN @ 4.39
17 94.7% Sicilian + 5.3% Iran_N @ 4.39
18 84.2% Italian_South + 15.8% Anatolia_ChL @ 4.4
19 81.3% Sicilian + 18.7% Jew_Iranian @ 4.4
20 88.3% Sicilian + 11.7% Armenia_ChL @ 4.48

And so forth. Where do you see 50-75%? Where?

There will be extremes, but they'll be exactly that: extremes. Not the common ordinance. I can cite a lot more similar examples from the site itself and even Eupedia. They're different from one another, but in all of them, West Asian is at max 20%, for broader estimation of the population percent, mind you.

Also, for the Peloponnesians:

https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg201718

[mitalit]

italiani e greci, una faccia, una razza

Depends on which Greek..
Greeks with Anatolian, Dodecanese, Pontic heritage look Turkish. Also West Thrace Greeks look more Turkish too.
But I assume that Greeks from western and southern regions of Greece would look much more Mediterranean like Italians.

It also depends on which Italian or Turkish. They are quite heterogeneous countries

[kingmob]

Cite the particular texts from the so-called "Byzantine sources" that say that mainlander Greeks aren't Greeks. Because I can cite a lot more for the exact opposite. When you say "mediaeval entries" it's a sly and very cowardly way to just withdraw your initial statements, in which you call us "non-Greeks" especially in previous attacks on me and other members, calling us "OWD" (LOL).

Concerning the islands, it's been documented extensively from various sources how heavy West Asian admix'ed they are, you are just behind with your knowledge, this isn't 2015, I am not going to keep re-iterating the same stuff over and over again in pointless pissing contests. The fact that you link me single distance oracles with middle points between "Greek" and "Askhenazi" kinda proves my point, unless of course you think that Ashkenazis themselves are not West Asian admix'ed either, smh. You are also linking me mixed modes with 66% Assyrian proving what exactly? Nice self own there.

Now for the Peloponnese, the fact that you yourself don't have any West Asian admixture doesn't prove anything, you are probably from a place that has rather higher Arvanite or Vlach ancestry, in relation to the average, plenty of those places (although I somehow doubt it given your heavy Anatolid features coming through).

The real O.G. Peloponnesias, Mani and adjacent areas, are heavy West Asian in their components and that has also been demonstrated by Moriopoulos' group on AG, who went into all the trouble hunting down pure samples and actually managing to get their hands on the Stamatoyanopoulos et al. sample list, again you are very behind with the news, so to speak. You should contact him for further clarifications, he is a helpful person.

As for the historical sources, I am not going to do the reading for you, you have to do it yourself, however I am linking here an excerpt from Chalkocondyles' work talking about how the Vlachs are essentially settlers from Moldova in the late Medieval, like I said, as so to show that I am not making stuff up.



I know you are an edgy 4chan kid, based on your slurs and lingo, but do try to keep up.

[Zeno]

Concerning the islands, it's been documented extensively from various sources how heavy West Asian admix'ed they are, you are just behind with your knowledge, this isn't 2015, I am not going to keep re-iterating the same stuff over and over again in pointless pissing contests. The fact that you link me single distance oracles with middle points between "Greek" and "Askhenazi" kinda proves my point, unless of course you think that Ashkenazis themselves are not West Asian admix'ed either, smh. You are also linking me mixed modes with 66% Assyrian proving what exactly? Nice self own there.

Now for the Peloponnese, the fact that you yourself don't have any West Asian admixture doesn't prove anything, you are probably from a place that has rather higher Arvanite or Vlach ancestry, in relation to the average, plenty of those places (although I somehow doubt it given your heavy Anatolid features coming through).

The real O.G. Peloponnesias, Mani and adjacent areas, are heavy West Asian in their components and that has also been demonstrated by Moriopoulos' group on AG, who went into all the trouble hunting down pure samples and actually managing to get their hands on the Stamatoyanopoulos et al. sample list, again you are very behind with the news, so to speak. You should contact him for further clarifications, he is a helpful person.

As for the historical sources, I am not going to do the reading for you, you have to do it yourself, however I am linking here an excerpt from Chalkocondyles' work talking about how the Vlachs are essentially settlers from Moldova in the late Medieval, like I said, as so to show that I am not making stuff up.



I know you are an edgy 4chan kid, based on your slurs and lingo, but do try to keep up.

Check the population percentages themselves, don't commit tomfoolery again. The percentages of West Asia are on one hand relatively significant, but not 50-75% as you say. That's the percentages you've mentioned yourself in particular. And you cope with saying "well, they're showing middle points between Greeks and Ashkenazis". Check the single population distances, which are the most essential. Ashkenazis lag far behind in the numbers than the significance you give them.

The vast majority of the Peloponnese doesn't even have Vlachs, like Jesus Christ, do you know basic ethnography? All of them are concentrated in western Thessaly and western Macedonia. And the Arvanites in the Peloponnese are at a percentage of 95% concentrated in Corinthia, where traditionally almost all Arvanite settlements there were located. I myself come from Foloi, which traditionally had only 4 Arvanite settlements from a total of 55 villages, and even these 4 had become Greek over time due to migrations from the other, Greek villages (Lalas is a very good example). And these 4 Arvanite settlements are the only ones, along with other 7 in Achaea, outside of Corinthia, if I'm not mistaken. Don't call every mainland Greek a "Vlach" or an "Arvanite" because you yourself are part Vlach (I remember you saying that to me). Both groups were always a tiny minority in the demographics of mainland Greece and up until the previous century, they were secluded. The vast majority of Greeks from the mainland though are not either of the two ethnicities, without adding any negative connotations to either of them. It is what it is.

For the Chalkokondyles excerpt, it mentions just how Vlachs settled from Moldova. It doesn't say anything about how Vlachs themselves are the majority in demographic consistency, as in all essence you promote, being part Vlach yourself. Again, Vlachs and Arvanites do exist, yes, but they're not the majority in the mainland as a whole, and never were to begin with.

Lastly, I myself might not have West Asian admixture. But guess what, based on my "Anatolian" features (which aren't, lol, you called me a Cappadocian Med only for the slightly convex nose, and even blatantly called me Pontid in your analysis in my classification thread), the vast majority doesn't have any West Asian admixture in the first place. Again, judging from the spectrum of the minority of Vlach/Arvanite settlements and from your ancestry part doesn't mean to call any settlement in the mainland "Vlach/Arvanite".

[kingmob]

Check the population percentages themselves, don't commit tomfoolery again. The percentages of West Asia are on one hand relatively significant, but not 50-75% as you say. That's the percentages you've mentioned yourself in particular. And you cope with saying "well, they're showing middle points between Greeks and Ashkenazis". Check the single population distances, which are the most essential. Ashkenazis lag far behind in the numbers than the significance you give them.

Listen, boy, I will try to be as explanatory as I can, but I am tired of your cognitive dissonance. Follow my bullet points:

1) The process of absorbing Balkan and Dunabian populations (Vlachs, Arvanites/Albanians, and South Slavs/Bulgarians to a lesser extent) into the Byzantine ethnos is a long drawn one and begins roughly in the 11th century, just how Chalcocondyles writes. A lot of these groups were linguistically Hellenised early, whereas others didn't (the Albanian speaking Arvanite sub-groups, for example or the Slavic speaking Macedonians), and that is one of the reasons why their Greek dialects cannot trace their evolution prior to the 11th century, like you can do with Pontics for example.

2) Before that process took place, the admixture of what constituted the majority of the non-Balkan Byzantine ethnos must have had its majority part from Anatolia and South Caucasus, in particular, essentially the variation that is portrayed by the Rome_Imperial samples that we have, a profile that still preservers in islands like the Dodecanese and others, because those islands received less migratory flows from peninsular Greece, other islands received more, ie the ones close to Athens/Peloponnese.

3) All the above are corroborated by the medieval literature and are evident in the samples we have. You fished some random thread with oracles, that show inflated Caucasus_HG, Iranian_N and Gedrosia and Near East categories and still argue that somehow that these people are not West Asian in their admixture. Newsflash, boy, the Anatolia_Farmer component is also West Asian in origin and current geographical spread, especially when its coupled with the aforementioned categories. I am not going to continue this line of argument, because you are being a typical pedantic edgelord with your stupidity. Greek Islands score a minimum of 50%+ West Asia, peaking in the Dodecannese and Crete and spreading outwards. Deal with it.

4) You do have Anatolian features, you pass very well in Turkey. Cappadocian Med is part of the Anatolid spectrum, I am the only person from whom you are going to hear the truth and I don't cater to anyone's whims or OWD. You are not Atlanto-Med but you can squeeze in Pontid, which, by the way, is also part of the East Med spectrum. I am sorry you feel bad about it, and it doesn't help you with your alt-right teenage angst, but it is what it is. You can fit better in the East and not the West, you are not part of the "white" NW Euro groups you so desperately seem to want to be, you suffer from OWD and it shows in your display of insecurities. However, you are still very young and hopefully you are going to get over yourself.

5) Concerning my own ancestries, I have zero issue with being Vlach, Arvanite, Laz, Chaldean, from Moldova, Thrace, Turkey/Caucasus, or w/e else, I am interested in the truth, my identity and self-worth is not dictated by some sort of British/Bavarian fairy tale from the 19th century of how I am the descendant of ancient Pericles and Leonidas when I am so obviously not. I am Byzantine Orthodox of the former "Bhasileia ton Rhomaion" and that is all I need to be.

This is my flag and this my national emblem:

Spoiler!

and not your East India Company colonial flag, decorated with the Bavarian Royal colors.


Just so we have an understanding.

[Zeno]

[QUOTE=eupator;7520202]Listen, boy, I will try to be as explanatory as I can, but I am tired of your cognitive dissonance. Follow my bullet points:

1) The process of absorbing Balkan and Dunabian populations (Vlachs, Arvanites/Albanians, and South Slavs/Bulgarians to a lesser extent) into the Byzantine ethnos is a long drawn one and begins roughly in the 11th century, just how Chalcocondyles writes. A lot of these groups were linguistically Hellenised early, whereas others didn't (the Albanian speaking Arvanite sub-groups, for example or the Slavic speaking Macedonians), and that is one of the reasons why their Greek dialects cannot trace their evolution prior to the 11th century, like you can do with Pontics for example.

Ok, and? It's known they got assimilated. But how does this prove they're sizable in demographic portions? That's what I'm asking, and you still haven't answered it. Don't answer the obvious bits. I knew this beforehand. Tell me what is their population percentage in particular, because you always, in other comments, state their significance as if they're an overly sizeable group (while they're not).

2) Before that process took place, the admixture of what constituted the majority of the non-Balkan Byzantine ethnos must have had its majority part from Anatolia and South Caucasus, in particular, essentially the variation that is portrayed by the Rome_Imperial samples that we have, a profile that still preservers in islands like the Dodecanese and others, because those islands received less migratory flows from peninsular Greece, other islands received more, ie the ones close to Athens/Peloponnese.

Aka, if I understand right: the Greeks of Anatolia and the Caucasus in antiquity? Because back then, in these two areas, we demographically were the majority. Is that what you're saying?

3) All the above are corroborated by the medieval literature and are evident in the samples we have. You fished some random thread with oracles, that show inflated Caucasus_HG, Iranian_N and Gedrosia and Near East categories and still argue that somehow that these people are not West Asian in their admixture. Newsflash, boy, the Anatolia_Farmer component is also West Asian in origin and current geographical spread, especially when its coupled with the aforementioned categories. I am not going to continue this line of argument, because you are being a typical pedantic edgelord with your stupidity. Greek Islands score a minimum of 50%+ West Asia, peaking in the Dodecannese and Crete and spreading outwards. Deal with it.

In correlation with the previous point, does "West Asia" mean the populations of the Roman Imperial Period (Rome_Imperial) in Anatolia, that is the Greek populations which were predominant? Genuinely asking here.
Also, the Anatolian_Farmer component is mentioned in the renowned 2017 Nature study. It is just Neolithic, it doesn't mean West Asian in particular. And in that study it wasn't coupled with the other categories you mentioned. So, just Neolithic. Which means nothing, given that all Europeans have Anatolian Farmer admixture in broad terms. That's the EEF admixture.

4) You do have Anatolian features, you pass very well in Turkey. Cappadocian Med is part of the Anatolid spectrum, I am the only person from whom you are going to hear the truth and I don't cater to anyone's whims or OWD. You are not Atlanto-Med but you can squeeze in Pontid, which, by the way, is also part of the East Med spectrum. I am sorry you feel bad about it, and it doesn't help you with your alt-right teenage angst, but it is what it is. You can fit better in the East and not the West, you are not part of the "white" NW Euro groups you so desperately seem to want to be, you suffer from OWD and it shows in your display of insecurities. However, you are still very young and hopefully you are going to get over yourself.

1. You're the only one who called me Cappadocian Med. When I asked you, you told me you gave me that classification only because of the slightly convex nose of mine. Which isn't just a reason for being called Cappadocian, it's just a Dinarid influence.
2. I didn't call myself "Atlanto-Med". In my first two classification threads two years ago, the second most frequent taxonomy after Pontid, was Atlanto-Med. I didn't make this up. And just 1 week ago in other thread, where people classified one another, when I asked other opinions, everyone answered Pontid or Gracile Med. Is it other people's fault here for classifying me that way?
3. How the fuck do I want to position myself into NW Europe, by calling a phenotype that isn't even present in NW Europe, but almost exclusively in Southern Europe only? Can you please give me what you're smoking? Because that shit must be very strong.
4. Thank you for being condescending, but I already know that Pontid is an Eastern phenotype, plonker.

5) Concerning my own ancestries, I have zero issue with being Vlach, Arvanite, Laz, Chaldean, from Moldova, Thrace, Turkey/Caucasus, or w/e else, I am interested in the truth, my identity and self-worth is not dictated by some sort of British/Bavarian fairy tale from the 19th century of how I am the descendant of ancient Pericles and Leonidas when I am so obviously not. I am Byzantine Orthodox of the former "Bhasileia ton Rhomaion" and that is all I need to be.

This is my flag and this my national emblem:

Spoiler!

and not your East India Company colonial flag, decorated with the Bavarian Royal colors.


Just so we have an understanding.

Both flags are part of our ethnos. The current flag is the flag that our revolutionary navy had. And it was the naval ensign of Greece until 1978. It's not "Bavarian". And light blue is the colour of Bavaria, not dark blue, you sod. In terms of vexillology you're not the brightest star it seems. Stay put in genetic analyses.

But th


The double-headed eagle and this flag:



Are also our national symbols. You reject the national flag for what reason? Because if we agree upon your logic that "iT's aN eAsT iNDiAn ComPaNy imMiTATioN!!!11!", then I guess the American flag is also an imitation of this flag. Go tell an American that their flag is "akshually Bri'i'sh". You'll either be laughed at or spat at. And rightfully so. Because that's not the case. The symbolism is highly different. And think that they're the same coloured stripes. Not like us, which we have dark blue stripes.
And for the "Bavarian" part: if super light blue, the Bavarian national colour, is the same as dark blue, our national colour, then η πούτσα είναι εν τέλει η ίδια με την βούρτσα.

-_-

And I will make myself clear in return, and I won't deal with this again, especially with you:

I am a Greek, who descends from both parents from the same village, and all his ancestors come from within 10 kms of the vicinity of this village. I can say that the Greeks have genetic continuity, not only because I myself have no other ancestry, but also because all serious studies show that we're largely the same in genetics as the inhabitants of Antiquity. Having Neolithic admixture (Anatolian_Farmer, Early_European_Farmer) does NOT make us West Asians. It's Neolithic.
Last but not least, Minoan, Mycenaean, classical Antiquity and Byzantine times are all part of our history and our heritage, and are linked to us. This is my belief, and it's backed by loads of evidence. You can say whatever you want, but to make it as plain as possible, I don't give a shit about your opinion. Call me all the names of your desire, you'll just convince me more for my opinion.

We agree we disagree. The end.

[kingmob]

The West Asian admixture in modern Greeks (and those of antiquity), especially in current times after the absorption of the 1922 Lausanne Treaty refugees, is a staunch reality, no matter how much you try to deny it. It doesn't matter if you call it neolithic or not, the people of Anatolia/S.Caucasus and the Levant also share this "neolithic" admixture as well as uniparentals on top of that. It's pointless to run around in circles, everyone who can read basic ADMIXTURE (or other) results can see it for themselves. You Greek peninsular "purists" should come to terms with it and stop being the laughing stock of the anthroforum world with your OWD. You got mixed with West Asian "sandniggers" and "subhumans" (to borrow your own group's characterisations), your neo-Golden Dawn/alt-right genetic purity is out of the window and it's never coming back, time to pack it in ...

I will however address the latter part of your post, which I think is the most interesting. For anyone who want to follow the discussion, this is what I am referring to:

East India Company British colonial flag (17th century):

Spoiler!

Bavarian Royal colors:

Spoiler!

Also, in light blue, like the kid said:

Spoiler!

Modern Greek flag:

Spoiler!

Also, in light blue to match the light blue Bavarian theme:

Spoiler!

You have to be dumb not to be able to put 1+1 together. It's no secret that the success of the so-called Greek-Revolution was a colonial power project of the time, solidified with the intervention of their fleets (mainly Russian and British) that ended up with the destruction of the Ottoman-Egyptian naval forces in a historical moment where said revolution was all but entirely crushed and wiped out by the Ottomans.

The neo-Greek kingdom of 1831-36 that was created as the East Med colonial puppet state that it continues to be even in our days, needed a new narrative to break away from its Orthodox Byzantine and Ottoman past, especially when a considerable portion of its population were Albanian and Vlach speakers, hence the historical romantic revival of the ancient Greek mythos and its incorporation into the raison d'être of this newly created nation. This is basic 19th century history stuff, I am surprised I have to re-iterate it in 2022.

As is the case with most colonial stooge states that emerged out of the 19th/20th century colonial arena, the time is nigh for them, 21st century world politics can no longer sustain the supply of resources that the former colonial powers poured into those states in order to ensure their survival. All of the former Ottoman countries (including Turkey) are bankrupt and bleeding money and people fleeing their failed states and societies. Greece is no different, it's a bankrupt failed state unable to provide basic services and resources to its citizens among a sea of corruption, unemployment and economic desertion and a collapse of demographics.

So you see, your neo-Greek 19th century identity, based on false premises, lies, and distortion of historical and ethnographic truth, as well as its fierce polemic towards the real history of our Byzantine ethnos, the basis of our Orthodox Faith, is near its brink and I for one am not sorry to see it go.

Better luck next time!


PS.

Obligatory pure-blooded Peloponnesians (and some others), imo:

Spoiler!

That's all for now, carry on.

[reboun]

There are lots of Turks of Balkan descent. Therefore, I would say Turks.

[wvwvw]

Depends on which Greek..
Greeks with Anatolian, Dodecanese, Pontic heritage look Turkish. Also West Thrace Greeks look more Turkish too.
But I assume that Greeks from western and southern regions of Greece would look much more Mediterranean like Italians.

Stop talking out of your ass. Pontic Greeks and other Greeks look very Greek, so much that the vast majority look indistinguishable or slightly distinguishable from other Greeks. They don’t look Turkish, at least not like the average Turk who looks like this:




Only with some Islamized Turks of Greek origin from Pontus and Western Turkey do Greeks look similar. And with Magna Grecia where there were an uninterrupted influx of Greeks from antiquity up to the Greek war of Independence.

As for Druzes most look Arabic. They look way closer to Turks than to Greeks. Although some may look Greek simply because there are communities of Greeksin Lebanon, Syria and elsewhere.

[Zeno]

blah blah blah

When you quite literally re-iterate points that make you no different than a cultural Marxist, in all essence, and then do an 180-degree turn to say "I'm akshually a proponent of the Bhasileia ton Rhomaion", in a typically Orwellian doublespeak fashion, I can't even take this seriously.

Be a proponent of one of the two notions, fuckwit, not both. Don't say and contradict things. Don't act like a "true patriot" when you talk like a bastardous commie.

P.S.: it's just Neolithic, because when you say things like:

The West Asian admixture in modern Greeks (and those of antiquity)i...s a staunch reality, no matter how much you try to deny it

You directly say that: a) we're the same as ancient Greeks, b) it's indeed Neolithic, because it's older than the present populations located here currently. That's what the original 2017 study on the Minoans and Mycenaeneans says.

needed a new narrative to break away from its Orthodox Byzantine and Ottoman past, especially when a considerable portion of its population were Albanian and Vlach speakers,

When the Constitution begins with a literal oath to the Holy Trinity, in a truly Byzantine ecclesiastical fashion, and when up to this day Christianity is consolidated as the dominant and de facto official religion of the country, again, in true Byzantine fashion. And a total of 8% of the population for both minorities isn't significant. Again, don't act like a anti-hellenic commie while pretending to be a "real patriot".

But nevertheless, carry on.