GENETIC REPORTS AND ANALYSES. AND LOVING LINEAGE AND HERITAGE WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND SOUL

[Ellethwyn]

This thread is scrambling my brain.

[Tongio]

This thread is scrambling my brain.

Vik fits perfectly the modern slang "cringe".
He is a harmless guy tho(except his colourful texts may cause epilepsy episodes in some).

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Vik fits perfectly the modern slang "cringe".
He is a harmless guy tho(except his colourful texts may cause epilepsy episodes in some).

It's so hard to read with the different colors, emoticons, and fonts. It breaks up the flow.

[VikLevaPatel]

The Genoplot platform is available in monthly and annual plans, with prices from $1.99 to $50, depending on features and on what you need and want, and with monthly and annual pricing at $4.99 and $50, respectively, for the pro version. I now have two accounts there, and one is on a monthly subscription plan, and the other on an yearly subscription.

I guess I'll just have to stick with the yearly pro subscription at $50. I definitely recommend getting the yearly subscription plan, and getting the full-featured "Pro" version with it. That should be sufficient. Depending on need, I may get the monthly subscription, and then cancel.... and renew. Again and again.

Most of the admix calculators are not worth the time of day. Some are even dead. Like this one, for instance.

The MEPHISTO K10 ADMIX.

Certainly the G25 calculators on the NMONTE RUNNER tool are "worth every penny", and they can certainly add a final touch of authenticity.

As is pointed out on the DNAGenics website: Eurogenes Global 25 (G25) ancestry test has become the most accurate test that anyone can be found out in the noncommercial market.

As already pointed out elsewhere, you need this to add the final and finishing touches. You need to go that extra mile when carrying out any research, including genetic and life-history research. After you have the basic basics, you will need to gradually add more, and just need to go that one step further. After all, when genetics is so intimately and inextricably connected to time, place, politics, and identity, this is a must have feature.

Things cost money. Everything costs money. Good things cost money.

And don't forget My True Ancestry, the premium site for discovering your ancient past! Let's not forget that truth is one, but prophets, mystics, saints, and sages call it by various names.

No "journey of self", that is, and call it what you like, as it can also be called by several other possible terms, including "journey" of self-development, of self-discovery, of self-love, of self-acceptance, of self-education, of self-improvement, of self-care, of self-reflection, of self-awareness, of self-affirmation, of self-analysis, of self-exploration, of self-transformation, of self-revelation, of rebirth, of awakening, of identification, of correction, or of celebration, would be complete without a "deep dive" into the ancestral data. Basically the above words and expressions are pretty much interchangeable synonyms.

There is no free lunch in biology and genetics.

The MTA (My True Ancestry) website is a great help and a great resource. No doubt this ancestry website will help end this long journey full of difficult self-realizations and punishing emotional, spiritual, or personal growth. Genealogy is ultimately about connection, and all genealogical roads lead here. This fact cannot be overemphasized. Let me repeat:

All genealogy roads eventually lead to MyTrueAncestry.com.

And to get the full benefit of MTA's services, you have to have the full package. And that is the Enlightenment level (no other will do).

mta.png

And based on what I can see from the website, there is some definite truth to what is being said here, especially about the mutual inclusivity of castes and genetics. See here, for example.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post7528434

This is especially relevant in the comparison between Gujarati or Uttar Pradesh (UP) Brahmin groups and Chamar or Dalit groups.

[VikLevaPatel]

For now, the jury's still out on these Genoplot admixes and runners.

And, it now seems, that every time I'll be going in there, I'll be repeating my daily, if not hourly, mantra: "You can't make this shit up".

It certainly looks like your finishing touches can easily turn into shitty touches "all over", and with even shittier genetic models.



If there is one thing which cannot be emphasized enough about these applications or data sources, it is that if it's not done right, it can easily turn into a nightmare.



This may show that you just need to use only those admixes and calculators that are specific to your situation and to your genetic composition. These runners and admixes are specific to specific ancestries and specific ethnic groups. Like this one, for instance.

https://i.ibb.co/GcqH0kG/screencaptu...5-12-58-52.png, https://i.ibb.co/SKwHf4r/guj2.png, https://i.ibb.co/Wpy9wVH/guj3.png, https://i.ibb.co/cTNHLqV/guj4.png, https://i.ibb.co/4VJfyCp/guj5.png

PCA plot: https://i.ibb.co/fDp1kx2/plot.png

Genetic distance: https://i.ibb.co/StWh6PK/plot2.png, https://i.ibb.co/7k2jtC8/plot3.png, https://i.ibb.co/x2PQ4B6/plot4.png

All Gujarati samples
Gujarati_Patidar 1.99
Bengali_&_Northeast_Indian 6.81
Northern_Indian_&_Pakistani 8.03
Central_Asian 21.61
Iranian_Caucasian_&_Mesopotamian 24.92
Anatolian 25.83
Ashkenazi_Jewish 31.68
Levantine 31.72
Cypriot 32.81
Greek_&_Balkan 33
Finnish 33.04
Italian 33.07
Macedonian 33.17
Eastern_European 33.36
Egyptian 33.62
French_&_German 33.88
Scandinavian 33.95
British_&_Irish 34.12
Spanish_&_Portuguese 34.39
North_African 35.25
Peninsular_Arab 36.04
Filipino_&_Austronesian 38.63
Manchurian_&_Mongolian 39.55
Ethiopian_&_Eritrean 42.79
Indonesian_Khmer_Thai_&_Myanma 43.98
Siberian 45.67
Vietnamese 48.14
Somali 48.27
Chinese_Dai 48.72
Japanese 48.85
Chinese 49.34
Korean 49.86
Native_American 55.63
Sudanese 69.31
Southern_East_African 70.75
Broadly_Melanesian 72.05
Ghanaian_Liberian_&_Sierra_Leonean 72.9
Angolan_&_Congolese 73.12
Nigerian 73.67
African_Hunter-Gatherer 82.8

Now, getting back to the main issue. As an example, I'll use the Scheduled Castes, aka the Dalits (the former Untouchables), and the Scheduled Tribes. I only needed to see a little bit of it to see what we're up against. Someone has certainly been hard at work lately.

Here I take Kol Tribes as example. And use the "North African" calculator.

According to Encyclopedia.com, the Kol belong to the Proto-Australoid ethnic stratum, and the Santal, Munda, Ho, Bhumij, Kharia, Khairwar, and Korwa are akin to the Kol.

The term "Kol" is also used as a synonym for the savage and the lowly.

The Kol Tribe of Central India: https://archive.ph/hVi2p

This, they'll have you believe, but instead, it will have you rolling on the floor laughing your ass off.

Iran: 61
Steppe: 31
Ibero: 11

Someone is certainly ratcheting up the propaganda offensive.

And, if that wasn't enough, they even score a high number (22%) for the Yamnaya component here:

https://i.ibb.co/NrChYRb/yamnaya.png



Oy vey doesn't even begin to cover it.



The very useful ejaculation "facepalm" applies here!

https://i.ibb.co/hZRqHDj/kol.png, https://i.ibb.co/tYzsfxJ/screencaptu...5-09-30-52.png

sample: Iran_Neolithic
distance: 25.32

sample: Caucasian
distance: 29.83

sample: Steppe_Pastoralist
distance: 30.58

sample: Arabian
distance: 36.77

sample: Anatolia_Neolithic
distance: 41.56

sample: Iberomaurisian
distance: 49.68

sample: Subsaharan
distance: 73.57

Impressive, but the jury's still out. And when you step back and really look at this, you just have to scratch your head, and think, "like you can't make this shit up, it's so crazy".

How do you even know what the truth is?

We can now claim that these are unrealistic data sets that have a bizarrely skewed bias.

Let's try something else:

Let's use the KURDISH IRAN-NEOLITHIC K6 ADMIX CALCULATOR.

And see if it makes any difference.

Kol: https://i.ibb.co/9YLbcfW/kurdish.png, https://i.ibb.co/R4KbPjd/kolkurd.png

It does not seem to be much better or much good either.

Now, here is comparing the Kol with Gujarati samples.

https://i.ibb.co/vvXp6Rh/guj.png, https://i.ibb.co/2hb6b6z/gujarati.png

The Chamars might even be a better example.

https://i.ibb.co/30nVVkY/screencaptu...5-13-50-32.png, https://i.ibb.co/6yPTkZT/cham.png

Iran: 64
Steppe: 26
Ibero: 15

Iran_Neolithic 30.15
Caucasian 35.08
Steppe_Pastoralist 35.68
Arabian 40.5
Anatolia_Neolithic 45.52
Iberomaurisian 51.2
Subsaharan 74.18

https://i.ibb.co/0sc1Tvs/iran.png, https://i.ibb.co/Zg0WZFC/chamar.png, https://i.ibb.co/gmBmSY9/ch.png

It also seems to make little difference.

Different caste, but same shit, for lack of a better expression.



They would have you believe that the average Onga Bonga is high in the steppe component: about 27%.

Blah, blah, blah.

https://i.ibb.co/5XD0s5Q/onga.png, https://i.ibb.co/W3S3wks/pca.png, https://ibb.co/5LhkgJc, https://i.ibb.co/SXdMZtv/pira.png

Or so they'd have us believe.

:

That's a little nauseating to think about, isn't it?

In fact, it doesn't seem to have made any difference, or made a real difference, in this case, like many others.

Mostly, though, that seems to have made fuck all difference.

I'd avoid this one if I were you. Meaning, the Genoplot ADMIX CALCULATORS.

It's ACTUALLY FUCKING disgusting.

But let's compare the three, namely, Koli, Chamar, and Gujarati, to see how they stack up on the PCA plot.

Koli vs Chamar: https://i.ibb.co/QbJWc30/kolcha.png
Gujarati vs Chamar: https://i.ibb.co/7rC65cW/gujcha.png
Gujarati vs Koli: https://i.ibb.co/prRvS2P/gujkol.png

The execution looks to be a little better here:

Koli vs Chamar vs Gujarati: https://i.ibb.co/1nnjvd5/kolchamguj.png

Certainly the Chamars can be more distant from the Gujaratis than the Kol:

https://i.ibb.co/MBHXXfq/chamars.png

More comparisons are needed, of course. But these can make for skewed comparisons.

And my broader point stands: "the no free lunch principle" is clear and convincing.

It's an old adage, and apparently it is also the Confucian adage. You can't get past that.

It's what I call "no money, no honey, no funny."

But no matter what, the app's gonna cost you.

Pricing is almost always dependent on product and market, and I am sure that is the case here.

Looks to me like the price range on the GenePlaza website definitely depends on the stock and on the quality of the stock.

Here are their prices and the ranges. And the price range is fairly wide.

Intelligence App €6
Ancestry €6.20
Ethnicity Calculator €7.19
K29 Admixture Calculator €7.70
The K35 calculator €8.70
K5 Admixture €9
K30 €10
SAPDA €13.65
Bronze Age DNA Test - Beginner €20
Bronze Age DNA Test - Advance €38

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post7536330

[VikLevaPatel]

I'm not sure what difference this WGS test will make, but I've really put my money where my mouth is, and did go ahead and purchase it, from none other than Mapmygenome, for a total purchase price of around 1,300 USD. I've been through some real crazy deep shit, and I may even look like I've been through the shit and back. And the fact is that the people who have been through shit are far more aware. And yes, it's the going rate. I'm not settling for anything less or for anything else. Just how perceptible the difference will be is hard to say. But I'm certainly hopeful. Personally I would say it will make no "substantial" difference. But maybe someday and somewhere down the line, yes, and it may turn out to be a very big blessing instead of a disaster or a bane. You really can't go wrong with it.

See the receipt: wgs.png https://i.ibb.co/xSk1zLq/wgs.png

And it all went smoothly, from start to finish. Absolutely no nonsense.

Even to the extent they're now coming to me asking me to advise on how to get it through.

On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 7:20 PM Krishna Kumar Sepur wrote:
Dear Sir,

Greetings from Mapmygenome. A customer is facing an issue in sending a sample from Abu dhabi . I would like to know what you have written and mentioned on the package so that the package reached us safely.

Thanks & Regards
Krishna

I wouldn't consider going anywhere else for the whole genome sequencing testing, and as my own bitter experience has shown, we can practically give up on the idea of going anywhere else. As for the ancestry tests, I strongly agree with the sentiments expressed in Moss Stern's review of the company. Uselessness is certainly in the eye of the beholder, as the experience of this Jewish person clearly shows.

And the company’s ancestry test is pretty useless, at least for people with my ethnic background. The results are inaccurate and the ethnic heritage descriptions seem very basic. But if you’re of Indian background, you might actually find it more accurate than your other ancestry test options!

https://archive.ph/BollK#selection-3399.0-3409.48

In my case it was just the opposite and was useful. Not to mention you can use the raw data on data upload sites such as MyTrueAncestry, GenePlaza, and ILLUSTRATIVE DNA. They are "highly recommended" (by me). But Mr. Stern's experience has proved instructive, offering a lesson that holds true. But it also goes without saying that you should not be "made an example of".

[VikLevaPatel]

I'm not sure what difference this WGS test will make

At the risk of sounding smug and over-confident, I'm not sure it'll make any difference to anything other than our credit card balances. And I'm not just talking about this WGS test only. It almost seems like Hillary Clinton's speaking for me. And I also ask myself the same question, but in a different context and with a different objective: "What difference will it make?" Context, of course, is king and is everything. And it almost goes without saying, but needs to be said: the same question can sound much different and can have significantly different effects in different contexts. I guess I'll have to wait and see whether these tests from Genetrack do indeed make a difference.

Standard Paternal Ancestry Package (Y-DNA 20 STR Marker Test), $154
Advanced Paternal Ancestry Package (Y-DNA 44 STR Marker Test), $258
Advanced Paternal Ancestry Package (Y-DNA 67 STR Marker Test), $349
Premium Combo Ancestry Package (Y-DNA 101 STR Marker + mtDNA HVR1 + HVR2 + Coding Region Test), $2310 (highest resolution test for tracing your own ancestry on your paternal and maternal line)

I bought all of them, yeah totally. My maternal ancestry report was more than satisfactory; it was excellent. But Y-DNA or paternal ancestry tests are "a different kettle of fish" entirely. See these older posts on the subject. And it is crucial to note the difference between the two types of testing, namely, SNPs (or a combination of SNPs and STRs) and STRs.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post7544573

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...38#post7541838

STR markers mutate rapidly, at a rate of once every 20 generations. Fast mutating STR markers can be used to trace recent ancestry, within the past hundreds of years. SNP markers mutate very slowly, once every few thousand years. Slow mutating SNP markers can only trace deep ancestry from thousands of years ago, and do not provide any information on recent ancestral events.

[VikLevaPatel]

Choose not to just use genotyped data but also imputed data, and be sure to have your missing data imputed by either Sano Genetics or DNAGenics, or both. "We use a process called imputation to predict missing content in your genotype data to 'upgrade' it for free," Sano states on their website. Genotyping arrays, as Sano Genetics notes, only test a small number of sites (on average about a few letters in every thousand) and they miss out a lot of information because they only focus on the areas where humans tend to be different from one another. SelfDecode says, in a different context but thinking along similar lines, that, at last count, there were over 300 million known genetic variants from sequenced human genomes, but that, nevertheless, most DNA tests can only read between 500k to 900k variants, which means you could be missing out on important information about your health. The human genome has about 6.2 billion letters of DNA, and whole genome sequencing (WGS) can be used to sequence nearly all 6.2 billion bases, whereas in contrast, genotyping arrays only test a small number of sites, between 500,000 up to 2 million for most arrays, or 0.2% of the genome, but this is the kind of technology used by nearly all major direct-to-consumer genetic testing companies, including 23andMe, AncestryDNA, and MyHeritage. But more to the point.

And what, indeed, is genetic imputation? What could it be? And what do we use imputation for? An "imputation," says Janus Christian Jakobsen, generally represents one set of plausible values for missing data – multiple imputation represents multiple sets of plausible values. And is it valid to ignore missing data? As a rule of thumb, definitely not. Complete case analysis may be used as the primary analysis if the proportions of missing data are below approximately 5%. Imputation service, according to DNAGenics, increases the number of SNPs using a statistical approach prone to miscall from 1% to 5% of the genotypes. They therefore recommend not to use it for health predictions. Moreover, if you upload your imputed results to a website that offers health predictions, consider that there could be some false-positives or false-negatives. As Sano Genetics, too, cautions, genotyping tests and imputation can have a high error rate for rare genetic variants, and caution should therefore be taken when interpreting rare genetic variants from this kind of test. Imputation, on the other hand, is more reliable for detecting common variation, but the accuracy for rare variation improves as the size of the pool of whole genome sequenced individuals increases.

The imputation is performed by DNA GENICS using BEAGLE 5.2, BCFTOOLS and the 1000Genomes human reference panel. In a similar manner, the imputation process at Sano accepts files from 23andMe, AncestryDNA, MyHeritage, or other providers (usually between ½ million to 1 million SNPs) and applies an algorithm called 'EAGLE2' which adds an additional 30 million SNPs. The imputation algorithms, explains Sano, compare the SNPs in the genotype file to the large set of whole genome sequenced individuals and searches for matching segments. These segments are called 'haplotypes' and can be used to 'fill in the blanks' between SNPs. And while a statistical technique called imputation can be used to 'fill in the blanks' for the letters in between, imputation is unreliable for rare genetic variants, and it will therefore not transform a genotyping test into a whole genome sequence. Nevertheless, it is still a valuable tool, and I fully expect that genotyping chips will continue to be used for years to come. Or, as Sano suggests, you can take the middle ground and try out the exome sequencing. And certainly it always pays to know your genes to the fullest. However, genotyping (also called DNA typing, DNA profiling, genetic fingerprinting, DNA fingerprinting, or identity testing) and imputation, it should be remembered, is not a full replacement for whole genome sequencing. Pan-genomes, Barh, ‎Soares, ‎and Tiwari (2020) note in their book "Pan-genomics: Applications, Challenges, and Future Prospects," are constructed from various many available resources such as the reference sequence and its variants, raw reads and haplotype reference panels. The data structure of a pan-genome is represented by a coordinate system with explicit information on all genetic variants. However, there are also limitations which should be noted. And "the jury is still out", as it were, on many of these matters, and will probably remain so until we see greater adoption if all of whole genome sequencing and see better representation of specific population subgroups. Still, many questions remain to be answered (and asked). And thorny issues still need to be addressed. So what this really comes down to is this. It all boils down to specificity. It all comes down to the specificity of the data and the methods used. By way of example, the following quote, from Sano Genetics, illustrates the current promise (or power or potential), present limitations, and future prospects of genetic testing:

Imputation does not perform as well for people from ethnicities that are underrepresented in the pool of whole genome sequences (often called reference panels). While projects like the 1,000 Genomes Project have made efforts to sample a wide range of different world populations, the vast majority of research projects are done on people of European ancestry. Population-specific reference panels, as well as population-specific genotype arrays are needed to improve imputation quality and prevent bias.

[VikLevaPatel]

Is this some kind of a joke? The situation or the whole thing is eerily similar to my experience with Living DNA (and others, of course). Are we seeing a pattern here? And are they using the same language to frame their flimsy arguments and excuses?

tellmegen.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Z880FRy/tellmegen.png

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Info Tellmegen
Date: Thu, 8 Sept 2022 at 00:56
Subject: tellmeGen DNA test results

Dear Vik,

We regret to inform you that the results obtained from your DNA sample did not reach the quality standard to give accurate results. This is usually due to an incorrect saliva collection or problems obtaining it (dryness, infections, use of medications or various pathologies).

When results are not obtained, we offer a free test repetition that includes the sample collection kit, the DNA extraction and its subsequent analysis in the Illumina® genotyping array.

If you agree to repeat the sample collection, please tell us your address and phone number, and we will send you another kit for taking a new sample. In case you decide to a refund, we offer it discounting 50€ for handling and shipping costs. Please tell us your order reference to proceed with it.

We are looking forward to hearing from you.

Kind Regards,

tellmeGen team

Yeah, right! What a pathetic bunch of hogwash. Seriously, these excuses are just too much for me to take seriously. They already have my contact details. But, as the Guardian notes, if they're trying to fuck you one way, you have to find a way to fuck them back.



A full chargeback for the amount paid (almost 250 US dollars) had been initiated, and I most certainly could be dealing with a "fraud of the first magnitude". My card issuer, in fact, credited my account with the full amount in a matter of minutes. So fuck you. Guess I'll add them to the very short list of companies not to buy kits from — but to avoid like the plague. tellmeGen is certainly "not on our approved list" of companies that are recommended on the basis of varying merits. But just to clarify: I am talking about genetic kits, and not their apps, which are fine on their own.

[Kriptc06]

yes