Ethnogenesis of the Kurds.

[Guti]

You have got nothing to do with Sumerians, stop being a fool. You have assimilated some native Mesopotamian by force and stolen their land, but that doesn't make you the inheritor of their legacy. There are other groups who have much more legitimate claim than you do.

WTH are you talking about?

If Iranics assimilated people, then those people were the Hurrians. And the Hurrians (CHG/Iran_ChL people) were native to Kurdistan/Upper Mesopotamia and predate Semitic people who came originally from the Levant. And unlike Afro-Asiatics who came originally from Africa, also proto-Indo-Europeans (CHG/Iran_ChL) were native to Kurdistan. If Iranics came from BMAC, at least they returned back to their original PIEan homeland in Kurdistan, since BMAC was closely related to the Upper Mesopotamia in the first place.

BMAC/Yaz or not, no matter how you want to look at this issue, Kurds are still the most native people to it's soil. Kurds have by far more CHG/Irn_ChL than the Assyrians.

[kingmob]

How about the Urartians who show R-A12332, a descendant of R-L584 that is also carried by Kurds.

[Guti]

How about the Urartians who show R-A12332, a descendant of R-L584 that is also carried by Kurds.

Bro, I think that Armenians will not like it what I am going to say, but I am sure many Urartu people who lived around Wan were assimilated by the Kurds and not only by the Armenians.


According to a Kurdish Prof. Mehrdad R. Izady, the Ubaid Sumerians were replaced by the Hurrians in the Upper Mesopotamia. He mentions at least 9 Hurrian tribes:

Urartu
Mushq/Mushku
Urkish
Subar/Saubar
Baini
Lullus

He thinks that they were also Hurrian:

Guti/Quti
Manna/Mannaeans
Kassites


This is what he writes about Ubaidians and the Hurrians:


"Ubaid Cultural Period

The Halaf Cultural period ends with the arrival, circa 5300 BC of a new culture and, quite likely a new people: the so-called Ubaidians.

Named after the archaeological mound of al-Ubaid in modern Iraq, where their remains first excavated, the people of Ubaid culture expanded in time from the plains of Mesopotamia into the mountains. The culture of the Ubaidians, or the proto-Euphratians, as they are sometimes called, caused a hybrid culture to emerge in the mountains. This new cultural phase in Kurdistan comprised of the earlier Halafian heritage, superimposed by this new, but foreign influence. The Ubaid cultural ascendance predominated in most of Kurdistan and Mesopotamia for the ensuing 1000 years.

Of the language and ethnic affiliation of the Ubaidians we know nothing beyond the barest conjecture. However, it is they who gave the names 'Tigris' and 'Euphrates' to the primary rivers of Kurdistan and Mesopotamia.


Hurrian Cultural Period

By approximately 4300 BC, a new culture, and possibly a new people, came to dominate the mountains: the Hurrians.

We know, for example, that the Hurrians spread far and wide into the Zagros-Taurus-Pontus mountain systems, and intruded for a time also on the neighboring plains of Mesopotamia and the Iranian Plateau. However, they never expanded too far from the mountains. Their economy was surprisingly integrated and focused, along with their political bonds, which runs largely parallel with the Zagros-Taurus-Pontus mountains, rather than radiating out to the lowlands, as was the case during the preceding Ubaid cultural period. Mountain-plain economic exchanges remained secondary in importance, judging by the archaeological remains of goods and their origin.

The Hurrians spoke a language, or properly, languages, of the north-eastern group of the Caucasic family of languages, distantly related to modern Chechen, Lezgian and Lakz. Their direction of Hurrian expansion is not yet understood, and by no means should be taken as having been north-south, i.e., an expansion out of the Caucasus, as often is presumed without any evidence. It may well be that it was the prolific Hurrians who introduced Northeast Caucasian languages into the Caucasus, instead of having originated from that tiny, sparsely-populated region.

The legacy of the Hurrians to the present culture of the Kurds is fundamental. It is manifest in the realm of Kurdish religion, mythology, material and martial arts, and even the genetics.

It is fascinating to recognize the origin of many tattooing motifs still used by the traditional Kurds on their bodies as replicas of those which appear on the Hurrian figurines. One such is the combination that incorporates serpent, sun disc, dog and comb/rain motifs. In fact, some of these Hurrian tattoo motifs are also present in the religious decorative arts of the Yezidi Kurds, as found prominently engraved to the wall at the great shrine at Lalish."

https://kurdistanica.com/257/exploring-kurdish-origins/

[chinshen]

WTH are you talking about?

If Iranics assimilated people, then those people were the Hurrians. And the Hurrians (CHG/Iran_ChL people) were native to Kurdistan/Upper Mesopotamia and predate Semitic people who came originally from the Levant. And unlike Afro-Asiatics who came originally from Africa, also proto-Indo-Europeans (CHG/Iran_ChL) were native to Kurdistan. If Iranics came from BMAC, at least they returned back to their original PIEan homeland in Kurdistan, since BMAC was closely related to the Upper Mesopotamia in the first place.

BMAC/Yaz or not, no matter how you want to look at this issue, Kurds are still the most native people to it's soil. Kurds have by far more CHG/Irn_ChL than the Assyrians.

Is that why I have R1b-L23-L277.1 Y-DNA which is the Y Haplo for over 30% of Assyrians and H4 mt-DNA where both are native to Upper Mesopotamia and you have an Indian Y=DNA & mt-DNA?

It makes perfect sense that you with Indian haplo types are a native to Upper Mesopotamia while Me with native Mesopotamian haplo's is from Africa.
You are a genius.

[chinshen]

Dup

[Guti]

Is that why I have R1b-L23-L277.1 Y-DNA which is the Y Haplo for over 30% of Assyrians and H4 mt-DNA where both are native to Upper Mesopotamia and you have an Indian Y=DNA & mt-DNA?

It makes perfect sense that you with Indian haplo types are a native to Upper Mesopotamia while Me with native Mesopotamian haplo's is from Africa.
You are a genius.

Butthurt Afro-Asiatic Semite. You are mixed with the Armenians. ASSyrians got their Y-DNA hg. R1b lineages from the Armenians. Nothing special about it, but it doesn't change the fact that Afro-Asiatic Semitic people and therefore your ancestors are from the Levant.

Both, my Y-DNA and mtDNA are actually native to Kurdistan and has nothing do with the Semitics or with India. There is NOTHING South-Asian (Hindu/Vedic/Dravidian) about my DNA.


Proto-Iranics are not from India you Semite, while proto-Semitics/Afro-Asiatics are from Africa. That's a FACT, the first Afro-Asiatic speakers were born in Africa, you like it or not.

[chinshen]

Butthurt Afro-Asiatic Semite. You are mixed with the Armenians. ASSyrians got their Y-DNA hg. R1b lineages from the Armenians. Nothing special about it, but it doesn't change the fact that Afro-Asiatic Semitic people and therefore your ancestors are from the Levant.

Both, my Y-DNA and mtDNA are actually native to Kurdistan and has nothing do with the Semitics or with India. There is NORTHING South-Asian (Hindu/Vedic/Dravidian) about my DNA.


Proto-Iranics are not from India you Semite, while proto-Semitics/Afro-Asiatics are from Africa. That's a FACT, the first Afro-Asiatic speakers were born in Africa, you like it or not.

I am not mixed with Armenians you fucking idiot. If I was mixed with Armenians and my y haplo was Armenian wouldn't that make me an Armenian due to patrilineal strictly followed in that part of the world, but I am not Armenian or have anything thing to do with them.
Assyrians have as much R1b-L23 as Armenians if not more and have absolutely nothing to do with Armenians.
As a matter of fact there is very little mixing between Assyrians and Armenians contrary to what idiots like yourself try to advertise.

[Guti]

I am not mixed with Armenians you fucking idiot. If I was mixed with Armenians and my y haplo was Armenian wouldn't that make me an Armenian due to patrilineal strictly followed in that part of the world, but I am not Armenian or have anything thing to do with them.
Assyrians have as much R1b-L23 as Armenians if not more and have absolutely nothing to do with Armenians.
As a matter of fact there is very little mixing between Assyrians and Armenians contrary to what idiots like yourself try to advertise.

I am not talking about you, but about the ancient Assyrians who lived with the ancient Armenians in the same area for centuries. There was a lot mixing between ancient Assyrians and ancient Armenians. Look at the academic PCA maps, both of you plot very close to each other. At the end ancient Assyrians got Anatolian related ancestry from the Armenians and ancient Armenians got Semitic/Levantine derived ancestry from the Assyrians.
Modern Assyrians are a product between Arabids and Armenoids/Anatolians (Semitics + Armenians).


Eventually, back to the Kurds, we have not only more Iran_ChL/CHG ancestry than Armenians, since modern Armenians are more mixed with the Anatolians/Levantines/Semites, Kurds have by far more Irn_ChL/CHG ancestry than the Semitic Assyrians.

Kurds have more Irn_ChL/CHG than the Semitics and only this fact makes Kurds more native to Kurdistan than Assyrians.


You have hard times to accept things, maybe it is time to go a psychiatrist or something.

[chinshen]

I am not talking about you, but about the ancient Assyrians who lived with the ancient Armenians in the same area for centuries. There was a lot mixing between ancient Assyrians and ancient Armenians. Look at the academic PCA maps, both of you plot very close to each other. At the end ancient Assyrians got Anatolian related ancestry from the Armenians and ancient Armenians got Semitic/Levantine derived ancestry from the Assyrians.
Modern Assyrians are a product between Arabids and Armenoids/Anatolians (Semitics + Armenians).


Eventually, back to the Kurds, we have not only more Iran_ChL/CHG ancestry than Armenians, since modern Armenians are more mixed with the Anatolian/Levantines/Semites, Kurds have by far more Irn_ChL/CHG ancestry than the Semitic Assyrians.

Kurds have more Irn_ChL/CHG than the Semitics and only this fact makes Kurds more native to Kurdistan than Assyrians.


You have hard times to accept things, maybe it is time to go a psychiatrist or something.

You moron stop talking bullshit, Ancient Assyrians did not mix with Ancient Armenians as you like to claim.
As a mater of fact Ancient Assyrians have been living in Anatolia way before Armenians arrival to Anatolia in the 10th century B.C, Assyrians had settlement in Central Anatolia since at least 2400B.C close to where modern Ankara is located.
On the other hand your Kurd ancestors started settling in Anatolia and Upper Mesopotamia after the Mongol invasion and mainly in the last 500 years.

[Guti]

You moron stop talking bullshit, Ancient Assyrians did not mix with Ancient Armenians as you like to claim.
As a mater of fact Ancient Assyrians have been living in Anatolia way before Armenians arrival to Anatolia in the 10th century B.C, Assyrians had settlement in Central Anatolia since at least 2400B.C close to where modern Ankara is located.
On the other hand your Kurd ancestors started settling in Anatolia and Upper Mesopotamia after the Mongol invasion and mainly in the last 500 years.

Whatever, go back to Ankara then.


I have shown you that Kurds are closely related to the ancient Hurrians who lived in the Upper Mesopotamia for thousands of years.

ASSyrian language as a Semitic language part of a Afro-Asiatic language family is NOT native to Northwestern Asia, period.
UPPER Mesopotamia has always been MULTI ETHNIC. If you think Assyrians were the ONLY people who lived in the UPPER Mesopotamia, you must really be a degenerate.


Maybe some incoming Semitic Assyrians from the Levant have assimilated some Hurrians and even some Iranics in the Mesopotamia, but Assyrians remained Assyrians.
In the meantime it were the Hurrians together with the Medes who gave rise to a Kurdic identity.


Without the Hurrians, the Kurds would not exist. While Assyrians as Semitics from the Levant already existed without the Hurrians

Kurds = Iranics + Hurrians.
ancient Assyrians = Akkadians + Amorites + some other Semitic tribes.
modern Assyrians = ancient Assyrians + ancient Armenians (including Urartu)


Hurrians predate Semites (Akkadians, Assyrians etc.) in the Mesopotamia. That makes Kurds more native.