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Thread: The origin of Proto Indo-European languages is moved from the Steppe to near Kurdistan & Armenia

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    Default The origin of Proto Indo-European languages is moved from the Steppe to near Kurdistan & Armenia

    Upcoming Lecture by Prof. David Reich - "The Genetic History of the Southern Arc: A Bridge between West Asia & Europe"

    https://eurasiandna.com/lecture-by-p...t-asia-europe/

    [IMG][/IMG]

    Our comprehensive sampling shows that Anatolia received hardly any genetic input from Europe or the Eurasian steppe from the Chalcolithic to the Iron Age; this contrasts with Southeastern Europe and Armenia that were impacted by major gene flow from Yamnaya steppe pastoralists.

    In the Balkans, we reveal a patchwork of Bronze Age populations with diverse proportions of steppe ancestry in the aftermath of the ~3000 BCE Yamnaya migrations, paralleling the linguistic diversity of Paleo-Balkan speakers. We provide insights into the Mycenaean period of the Aegean by documenting variation in the proportion of steppe ancestry (including some individuals who lack it altogether), and finding no evidence for systematic differences in steppe ancestry among social strata, such as those of the elite buried at the Palace of Nestor in Pylos.

    A striking signal of steppe migration into the Southern Arc is evident in Armenia and northwest Iran where admixture with Yamnaya patrilineal descendants occurred, coinciding with their 3rd millennium BCE displacement from the steppe itself. This ancestry, pervasive across numerous sites of Armenia of ~2000-600 BCE, was diluted during the ensuing centuries to only a third of its peak value, making no further western inroads from there into any part of Anatolia, including the geographically adjacent Lake Van center of the Iron Age Kingdom of Urartu.
    Muzh ba staso la tyaro tsakha ra wubaasu

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    This includes origins of some of Yamnaya’s ancestors. This is probably where Yamnaya got it’s Dolichocephaly from


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    Let's not talk about it as if it is a new consensus, most linguists and archeologists still believe the homeland is in the Pontic-Caspian steppe. If Harvard's hypothesis is all based on the supposed fact that "Anatolia received hardly any genetic input from Europe or the Eurasian steppe from the Chalcolithic to the Iron Age", then I doubt it will convince a lot of people since a massive migration from the steppe was never necessary to explain Anatolian languages. Hungarian is a historical example of how the language of a few steppe conquerors may be imposed on a population while barely leaving a genetic trace.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoro View Post
    This includes origins of some of Yamnayas ancestors. This is probably where Yamnaya got its Dolichocephaly from
    EHG were largely dolichocephalic as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Token View Post
    Let's not talk about it as if it is a new consensus, most linguists and archeologists still believe the homeland is in the Pontic-Caspian steppe. If Harvard's hypothesis is all based on the supposed fact that "Anatolia received hardly any genetic input from Europe or the Eurasian steppe from the Chalcolithic to the Iron Age", then I doubt it will convince a lot of people since a massive migration from the steppe was never necessary to explain Anatolian languages. Hungarian is a historical example of how the language of a few steppe conquerors may be imposed on a population while barely leaving a genetic trace.


    EHG were largely dolichocephalic as well.
    There’s a difference between possible and probable. I doubt that’s the only evidence they’ll present. We’ll see

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoro View Post
    This includes origins of some of Yamnaya’s ancestors. This is probably where Yamnaya got it’s Dolichocephaly from
    yep. Spot on. Most r1b origins were doli types I'd think. It explains how face shapes in europe are as they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vader View Post
    yep. Spot on. Most r1b origins were doli types I'd think. It explains how face shapes in europe are as they are.
    I just noticed this :

    It appears that Reich’s team has been able to obtain a decent amount of higher quality ancient DNA from the Turkey, Armenia, Iran and Iraq regions to enable to phased diploid genotyping and thus to determine negligible Steppe admixture into Anatolia from the Chalcolithic through the Iron Age. The implication here is if Indo-European languages did not come to Anatolia from the Steppe then the original staging ground for Proto-Indo-European languages and thus Yamnaya’s ancestors must have been near Anatolia ( likely Kurdistan and surrounds in NW Iran ). Additionally, Yamnaya’s predominant paternal ancestral haplogroup appears to be R-M269. This haplogroup is also found with high frequency in the eastern Turkey region. Thus if this region did not receive much steppe admixture, it’s likely this region had R-M269 prior to the formation of Yamnaya which would be consistent with this region being paternally ancestral to Yamnaya.

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    Actually the archaeological and linguistic evidences are pointing to the north-western parts of the Iranian Plateau as being an area of first stage proto-Indo European people It were the first stage Proto-Indo-Europeans that brought high advance metallurgy (including arsenical bronze) into the Steppes.

    Also, the first KURGANS came from Souther Caucasus. Maykop kurgans are older than the Yamnaya kurgans, etc.


    Also don't forget that the PIEan at the earliest stage was an ergative language. Ergativity in language is native to the Iranian Plateau and the Caucasus. Finno-Ugruian Uralic, Semitic language don't have ergativity. I think that ergative PIEan language lost its ergativity when it migrated into the Yamnaya Horizon.

    Languages can lose ergativity like Middle Persians did, while Kurdic is still an ergative constructed language.

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    Three Kurds who believe that the PIE homeland is near Kurdistan or northwestern Iran. Come on guys, this is becoming too predictable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoro View Post
    I just noticed this :
    There is a lot R1b in Luristan. Considering their NRY variation, the Lurs are distinguished from other Iranian groups by their relatively elevated frequency of Y-DNA Haplogroup R1b (specifically, of subclade R1b1a2a-L23). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lurs

    Yezidi Kurds have also more R1b than R1a and actually the most Northwestern Iranics have more R1b than R1a. R1b was for sure part of the Guto-Medes. All Iranics that were affected by the Guto-Medes have more R1b than R1a.

    There are very ancient R1a clades in Kurdistan, and according to the last major academic R1a-paper, R1a migrated from Kuridstan into the Steppes.




    But R1a Y-DNA R1a-Z94 is a fairly recent phenomenon in Kurdistan. It arrived to Kurdistan about 2500 years ago with the Parthians and Scythians. But at the end of the day Kurds are by far more Guto-Medes than Scythians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Token View Post
    Three Kurds who believe that the PIE homeland is near Kurdistan or northwestern Iran. Come on guys, this is becoming too predictable.
    And the Eastern Europeans think it was in the eastern Europe. Some 'Europeans' even believe they are ARYAN, lmao.

    The academic world and the world most prominent genetics don't agree with you at all.


    There are evidences that can't be ignored. I have no issues, only people in denial have serious issues.


    Archaeological (kurgans, metallurgy), linguistic (ergativity) and genetic facts are pointing toward the northwestern Iranian Plateau being the PIEan URHEIMANT.


    GAME OVER

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