Melilla Spain Has Fallen.

[zebruh]

Political manoeuvres. The enclave of Ceuta and Melilla are necessary as a buffer zone. Ceding the sovereignty over these territories makes no sense because Morocco will do nothing to stop the flow of illegal immigrants to mainland Spain. On the contrary it would make it more difficult for the Spanish authorities to control it.

Oh is it effective at border control? How much coastal surface area is it covering?
Seems like it isn't. They should just return cueta to morroco or whatever country and they should get back gilbratar. Getting back gilbratar makes more sense since its actually part of the coastline of the iberian peninsula and connected to the mainland

Peope here talk on the internet pretty inhumanely.

[gixajo]

Political manoeuvres. The enclave of Ceuta and Melilla are necessary as a buffer zone. Ceding the sovereignty over these territories makes no sense because Morocco will do nothing to stop the flow of illegal immigrants to mainland Spain. On the contrary it would make it more difficult for the Spanish authorities to control it.

In this last wave it´s not clear that was a Moroccan thing, I thought I read that two Moroccan gendarmes had also died.

It is possible that the immigrants are beginning to stop being manageable for Morocco too (at least sub Saharan ones).

[gixajo]

Oh is it effective at border control? How much coastal surface area is it covering?
Seems like it isn't. They should just return cueta to morroco or whatever country and they should get back gilbratar. Getting back gilbratar makes more sense since its actually part of the coastline of the iberian peninsula and connected to the mainland

Peope here talk on the internet pretty inhumanely.

It´s Ceuta.

Well, Ceuta should be bring back to Portugal even before to Morocco, because it was Portuguese before being Spanish.

[zebruh]

It´s Ceuta.

Well, Ceuta should be bring back to Portugal even before to Morocco, because it was Portuguese before being Spanish.

It was morrocan before portuguese. Dont understand. Its connected to the morrocan mainland.
Then give gilbatrar to spain.
Seems more fair this way. And more sensible. Migrants are crossing through the water. Not through land.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Oh is it effective at border control? How much coastal surface area is it covering?
Seems like it isn't. They should just return cueta to morroco or whatever country and they should get back gilbratar. Getting back gilbratar makes more sense since its actually part of the coastline of the iberian peninsula and connected to the mainland

Peope here talk on the internet pretty inhumanely.

Gibraltar has nothing to do with Ceuta and Melilla, I do not understand why people keep bringing up the idea of swapping both. Gibraltar belongs to the United Kingdom, if Spain cedes Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco why would the United Kingdom give away Gibraltar out of good will when there is nothing for them to gain?

People on the internet also are clueless regarding geopolitics in general and believe that sovereign nations would be willing to loose one centimeter of their overseas territory at the first problem Yes, apparently this can all be solved easily just like in a board game...

And yes, Ceuta and Melilla are somewhat effective in controlling immigration as a buffer zone. Immigrants manage to get into these enclaves but then have a much harder time getting to mainland Spain than they would if these territories were controlled by Morocco.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Oh is it effective at border control? How much coastal surface area is it covering?
Seems like it isn't. They should just return cueta to morroco or whatever country and they should get back gilbratar. Getting back gilbratar makes more sense since its actually part of the coastline of the iberian peninsula and connected to the mainland

Peope here talk on the internet pretty inhumanely.

Gibraltar has nothing to do with Ceuta and Melilla, I do not understand why people keep bringing up the idea of swapping both. Gibraltar belongs to the United Kingdom, if Spain cedes Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco why would the United Kingdom give away Gibraltar out of good will when there is nothing for them to gain?

People on the internet also are clueless regarding geopolitics in general and believe that sovereign nations would be willing to loose one centimeter of their overseas territory at the first problem Yes, apparently this can all be solved easily just like in a board game...

And yes, Ceuta and Melilla are somewhat effective in controlling immigration as a buffer zone. Immigrants manage to get into these enclaves but then have a much harder time getting to mainland Spain than they would if these territories were controlled by Morocco.

[zebruh]

Gibraltar has nothing to do with Ceuta and Melilla, I do not understand why people keep bringing up the idea of swapping both. Gibraltar belongs to the United Kingdom, if Spain cedes Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco why would the United Kingdom give away Gibraltar out of good will when there is nothing for them to gain?

People on the internet also are clueless regarding geopolitics in general and believe that sovereign nations would be willing to loose one centimeter of their overseas territory at the first problem Yes, apparently this can all be solved easily just like in a board game...

And yes, Ceuta and Melilla are somewhat effective in controlling immigration as a buffer zone. Immigrants manage to get into these enclaves but then have a much harder time getting to mainland Spain than they would if these territories were controlled by Morocco.

Obviously they are two different territories held by 2 different parties. But why does cueta belong to spain?
Cueta is not effective. How is it effective? It doesn't cover much coastline. And people complain they get tons of migrants. This just sounds like you want land to have land that doesn't really belong to spain. But same people would complain about UK having gilbratar?
Focus on getting gilbratar back. Whats the point of having cueta unless you literally want to invade morroco and take morrocan land. Theres not even good resources to be had there probably.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Obviously they are two different territories held by 2 different parties. But why does cueta belong to spain?
Cueta is not effective. How is it effective? It doesn't cover much coastline. And people complain they get tons of migrants. This just sounds like you want land to have land that doesn't really belong to spain. But same people would complain about UK having gilbratar?
Focus on getting gilbratar back. Whats the point of having cueta unless you literally want to invade morroco and take morrocan land. Theres not even good resources to be had there probably.

Ceuta belongs to Spain because it used to be a Portuguese territory which was transferred to Spain under the Treaty of Lisbon in 1668. Ever cared looking at the flag of Ceuta? It was never a territory of contemporary Morocco. Anyway my patience has run out for debating with people who are concerned about Ceuta's "resources" when they cannot even understand the strategic importance of having an enclave at the entrance to the Mediterranean that could literally control all maritime traffic that goes in and out if necessary...

[zebruh]

Ceuta belongs to Spain because it used to be a Portuguese territory which was transferred to Spain under the Treaty of Lisbon in 1668. Ever cared looking at the flag of Ceuta? It was never a territory of Morocco. Anyway my patience has run out for debating with people who are concerned about Ceuta's "resources" when they cannot even understand the strategic importance of having an enclave at the entrance to the Mediterranean that could literally controls all maritime traffic that goes in and out if necessary...

Thats a stupid arguement. If I stole a car, sold it to bob. You think the police are going to say, oh yea portugal stole it but yeah this is legitimate now because portugal sold bob a stolen car.

You haven't explained anything about its importance or strategic advantage. Unless you just want land. That territory is tiny and not strategic unless ships are coming the alantic into the medditernean. its useless for migration control. As evident by you guys still having the problem.

[Gredos]

It was morrocan before portuguese. Dont understand. Its connected to the morrocan mainland.

Ceuta and Melilla have nothing to do with morocco.

Ideally they would become independent states, they're a pain in the ass, but I doubt the inhabitants would want that, so there's nothing to be done.