How is Europe going to replace Russian gas?

[Hektor12]

Always in interesting have several independent suppliers at the same time, nothing idiotic about this.

The idiotic part is of course not diversifying suppliers, its the project itself which was intended to bypass Turkey. You invest 10, you get 3, is it smart?

In other words, Turkey is not at all a reliable partner for Europe, much less for Greece.

Let's not fool ourselves; #1 Has Turkey ever used energy card against Europe? #2 Can it do that (economically, politically) #3 Is Turkey even the "producer" of the gas? Or just a transit country? How can it manage to block all the pressure from gas producers and stop the transport?

If you want to make a negative statement against Turkey and show displeasure; you can always do that in logical ways. But Turkey is as a NATO member and EU candidate, being part of Europe in many way, is very reliable partner for all European countries except Greece.


For example; something from your land.. TCG Anadolu, amphibious assault ship of Turkish Navy, based on Spanish Juan Carlos I class amphibious assault ship. In which "amphibious assault" can Turkey use this ship, would you say? Apparently its not Mallorca or Alicante..

[Insuperable]

US gas is expensive, in Spain it is 40% more expensive than the one that comes from Russia. But Argentina has the second largest reserves in the world, they say they could supply gas to Europe without limit, and since Spain is interested in not depending on Algeria, presumably it would be cheap gas. It must necessarily be cheap gas to compete, perhaps it would not be much more expensive than the Russian. In any case, it is better to have alternatives to dependence on a country in Africa or Asia that will always use it to blackmail.

The problem is that they do not have the infrastructure to liquefy the gas, and it would take years and money.

Sounds good. How come the price of electricity is on rise in Spain and Italy too if they are not so dependent on Russian gas?

[gixajo]

The idiotic part is of course not diversifying suppliers, its the project itself which was intended to bypass Turkey. You invest 10, you get 3, is it smart?

There are more variables than the simple direct economic benefit in the medium or short term to carry out infrastructure works.

Let's not fool ourselves; #1 Has Turkey ever used energy card against Europe? #2 Can it do that (economically, politically) #3 Is Turkey even the "producer" of the gas? Or just a transit country? How can it manage to block all the pressure from gas producers and stop the transport?

If you want to make a negative statement against Turkey and show displeasure; you can always do that in logical ways. But Turkey is as a NATO member and EU candidate, being part of Europe in many way, is very reliable partner for all European countries except Greece.

For example; something from your land.. TCG Anadolu, amphibious assault ship of Turkish Navy, based on Spanish Juan Carlos I class amphibious assault ship. In which "amphibious assault" can Turkey use this ship, would you say? Apparently its not Mallorca or Alicante..

I have not said anything negative towards Turkey, Turkey right now is a fairly close strategic partner to Europe.

But when he has been interested, he has threatened to lean towards Russia as a kind of blackmail to obtain benefits in many areas.

I am not saying that Turkey is an enemy of Europe, but to say that it does not have continuous conflicts with Greece would be to deny the evidence.

A very useful ship. It will be more useful if you had some VSTOL aircraft so you could use it as an occasional carrier. In the end, are the USA going to sell you the F35B ?

One thing is NATO and another is Europe, they are both related, but they are not the same.

[Insuperable]

Perhaps the provocation and influenced escalation was by design to do just that

Everything is possible. The USA did comment on every occassion about Nord Stream pipelines and that being dependent on Russia is not a good deal. Maybe for altruistic reasons or not so altruistic reasons. We ordinary mortals can only guess. It's also easy for the USA to criticize that, how about the USA finds a solution to lower energy prices in Europe first.

[Hektor12]

I have not said anything negative towards Turkey, Turkey right now is a fairly close strategic partner to Europe.

I feel the necessity of counteracting you at this point. Europe is not a body, its many different countries.

But when he has been interested, he has threatened to lean towards Russia as a kind of blackmail to obtain benefits in many areas.

Bro, why is Europe idiotically pushing Turkey towards Russia then??

I am not saying that Turkey is an enemy of Europe, but to say that it does not have continuous conflicts with Greece would be to deny the evidence.

Apparently, Spain doesnt care that much, as it supplied Turkey with such amazing assault ship.

Another example= Apparently Italy too doesnt care about Greece. Turkish tank-killer T129 helicopter. Airframe based on Italian Agusta A129 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI/Ag...land_T129_ATAK



Likely Turkey is not a threat for any European country; if you disregard irrelevant Greece.

[oszkar07]

Everything is possible. The USA did comment on every occassion about Nord Stream pipelines and that being dependent on Russia is not a good deal. Maybe for a altruistic reasons or not so altruistic reasons. We ordinary mortals can only guess. It's also easy for the USA to criticize that, how about the USA finds a solution to lower energy prices in Europe first.

Yeh but is being dependant on USA or Middle East a good thing, Russia is much closer to Europe than US or ME.
I agree with you we can't know for sure how much it may have been a factor in terms of a motivation to destabilise Ru.
But yes many things could be possible, years later when the whole thing is reviewed by historians maybe then much more will come out. For now we just have media propaganda as if we are watching some Star Wars movie narrative.The good guy bad guy movie.

[Insuperable]

Yeh but is being dependant on USA or Middle East a good thing, Russia is much closer to Europe than US or ME.
I agree with you we can't know for sure how much it may have been a factor in terms of a motivation to destabilise Ru.
But yes many things could be possible, years later when the whole thing is reviewed by historians maybe then much more will come out. For now we just have media propaganda as if we are watching some Star Wars movie narrative.The good guy bad guy movie.

To me personally Russia is not closer to Europe, Russia is Europe. Nobody or very few people in Europe had anything against Russia. Russia was a reliable partner, but it was the USA pressuring and I would say destabalizing European countries, politics and politicians on every move. Of course Putin is also to blame for ruining connections built over the last decades and solidifying American presence in Europe, ruining European economy, destroying another European country and isolating and potentially banckrupting its own country in the process. Allegedly it was Russia who inflamed uprising in the Eastern Ukraine in response to American meddling in Ukraine.

[oszkar07]

To me personally Russia is not closer to Europe, Russia is Europe. Nobody or very few people in Europe had anything against Russia. Russia was a reliable partner, but it was the USA pressuring and I would say destabalizing European countries, politics and politicians on every move. Of course Putin is also to blame for ruining connections built over the last decades and solidifying American presence in Europe, ruining European economy, destroying another European country and isolating and potentially banckrupting its own country in the process. Allegedly it was Russia who inflamed uprising in the Eastern Ukraine in response to American meddling in Ukraine.

Oliver stone seems to have interesting perspective but also feels invasion by Ru was a miscalculation but was provoked.

[gixajo]

I feel the necessity of counteracting you at this point. Europe is not a body, its many different countries.

Bro, why is Europe idiotically pushing Turkey towards Russia then??

Apparently, Spain doesnt care that much, as it supplied Turkey with such amazing assault ship.

Another example= Apparently Italy too doesnt care about Greece. Turkish tank-killer T129 helicopter. Airframe based on Italian Agusta A129

Likely Turkey is not a threat for any European country; if you disregard irrelevant Greece.

It´s no any problem that NATO partners (Italy or Spain) sell weapons to another NATO partner (Turkey), the problem is in the conflicts that you have between you and Greece every so often.

I don't want to bother you but but I'm reading you and it reminds me of Russian rhetoric, "they force us to do this", "and what about you?" "We do not represent any threat to Europe", "whatever happens is the fault of others"...

[Hektor12]

I don't want to bother you but but I'm reading you and it reminds me of Russian rhetoric, "they force us to do this", "and what about you?" "We do not represent any threat to Europe", "whatever happens is the fault of others"...

Are Russia and Turkey the same? Russia successor of Ussr, 2. nuclear power in the world, energy exporter, technologically and militarily by far more independent than Turkey, borders East Asia and Pacific Ocean and more bla bla bla..

How do you compare.. Cut off Greece and which european country thinks that it can fight Turkey in the future? What i say are all rational. You posing as a rational man and bringing uttermost irrationalism in the topic.