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Thread: The not so invincible english armada

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gixajo View Post
    Actually we did not lose, in the London treaty it was agreed to leave everything as it was before the Anglo-Spanish war began(Status quo ante bellum), and the English had more total losses of men and ships.

    The Spanish hegemony still lasted about a century both in Europe and in America, and the Spanish empire about three more centuries.

    The famous "captains" Francis Drake and John Hawkins, died during this war by Spanish hands.

    Those who really lost were, for example, your Scottish ancestors, who saw how their queen was beheaded and the Catholic religion that was their traditional faith was gradually supplanted by a new religion invented to give all power to the king or queen of England.

    I don´t know if you have also Irish ancestors, but Drake was the responsible of Rathlin Island massacre BTW.

    The Armada Invencible target was helping intended to establish a Catholic king in England, Philip II did not claim to be the king, simply to continue Catholicism in the British Isles.
    No, very few Irish ancestors <2% but most of my ancestors were Prots, including Bishop Hooper who was burned at the stake by Queen Mary and is listed in Foxe's Book of Martyrs. So I have little love for Catholicism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damião de Góis View Post
    The portuguese navy should have never been involved in this.
    They obeyed the king they had at the time and fought for him and for the faith they believed in.

    As far as I know the Azores and Madeira are still Portuguese.

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    Quote Originally Posted by B01AB20 View Post
    Propaganda was and is used as a political weapon since always and everywhere, it's very effective, and cheap.

    Everybody with ambition should master propaganda.
    Well, the propaganda war was won by England, because the vast majority of countries at that time wanted to believe that propaganda, as the hegemonic power of the time we did not make many friends at that time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-Celtic View Post
    My mind went straight to the drownings of scores of helpless women when I saw "Drake". I'm descended from McDonnells in Ireland.
    Well you are lucky and unlucky, you have ancestors from both sides, you can position yourself with the Catholics or with the Protestants at will.

    You are something like myself in relation to the Spanish civil war, one grandfather was from the Francoist side (Basque Carlist) and the other from the Republican side (Andalusian Anarchist).

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    Quote Originally Posted by gixajo View Post
    They obeyed the king they had at the time and fought for him and for the faith they believed in.

    As far as I know the Azores and Madeira are still Portuguese.
    The portuguese lost ships, ships that would be in the indian ocean protecting the soon to be lost colonies there. The Armada Invencible and English Armada battles wasn't in Portugal's interest, it got involved because of the Iberian Union.

    The Iberian Union could have worked, but it didn't help that Portugal got dragged into Spain's wars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rædwald View Post
    No, very few Irish ancestors <2% but most of my ancestors were Prots, including Bishop Hooper who was burned at the stake by Queen Mary and is listed in Foxe's Book of Martyrs. So I have little love for Catholicism.
    Both Catholics and Protestants committed abominable crimes, and religious cheerleaders (not referring to you) can't change that fact of history. Their atrocities were as "Christ-like" as a drive-by shooting in a school zone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gixajo View Post
    Actually we did not lose, in the London treaty it was agreed to leave everything as it was before the Anglo-Spanish war began(Status quo ante bellum), and the English had more total losses of men and ships.

    The Spanish hegemony still lasted about a century both in Europe and in America, and the Spanish empire about three more centuries.

    The famous "captains" Francis Drake and John Hawkins, died during this war by Spanish hands.

    Those who really lost were, for example, your Scottish ancestors, who saw how their queen was beheaded and the Catholic religion that was their traditional faith was gradually supplanted by a new religion invented to give all power to the king or queen of England.

    I don´t know if you have also Irish ancestors, but Drake was the responsible of Rathlin Island massacre BTW.

    The Armada Invencible target was helping intended to establish a Catholic king in England, Philip II did not claim to be the king, simply to continue Catholicism in the British Isles.

    How is Catholicism more Scottish than Presbyterianism ? And there are more Presbyterians in Scotland than Anglicans etc...


    The Union of the Crowns (Scottish Gaelic: Aonadh nan Crùintean; Scots: Union o the Crouns) was the accession of James VI of Scotland to the throne of the Kingdom of England as James I and the consequential unification for some purposes (such as overseas diplomacy) of the two realms under a single monarch on 24 March 1603

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_the_Crowns

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    Quote Originally Posted by gixajo View Post
    Well you are lucky and unlucky, you have ancestors from both sides, you can position yourself with the Catholics or with the Protestants at will.

    You are something like myself in relation to the Spanish civil war, one grandfather was from the Francoist side (Basque Carlist) and the other from the Republican side (Andalusian Anarchist).
    I know what you mean. Don't get me started on the many feuding Highland clans from whom I descend; they make the Hatfields and McCoys look like brothers in arms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damião de Góis View Post
    The portuguese lost ships, ships that would be in the indian ocean protecting the soon to be lost colonies there. The Armada Invencible and English Armada battles wasn't in Portugal's interest, it got involved because of the Iberian Union.

    The Iberian Union could have worked, but it didn't help that Portugal got dragged into Spain's wars.
    At that time, Portugal and Spain were under the same king, so an Spanish war was a Portuguese war.

    If Açores, Madeira and Canary islands had fallen into English hands, and Spain had been completely defeated, what do you think would have happened to Portuguese and Spanish territories in America?

    What would have happened with the African Portuguese colonies and with all the Portuguese trade with the East?

    Also think about who were the allies of the English.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gixajo View Post
    At that time, Portugal and Spain were under the same king, so an Spanish war was a Portuguese war.

    If Açores, Madeira and Canary islands had fallen into English hands, and Spain had been completely defeated, what do you think would have happened to Portuguese and Spanish territories in America?

    What would have happened with the African Portuguese colonies and with all the Portuguese trade with the East?

    Also think about who were the allies of the English.
    Those scenarios are all bad. The ideal scenario for me is the portuguese king not dying heirless in Alcacer Quibir, his uncle Phillip II not taking the portuguese throne and this way the Iberian Union wouldn't be happening. Portuguese ships wouldn't be in the Armada Invincible.

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