Is the person or group criticising a country just as revealing as the country being criticised?

[Andullero]

but ultimately who gets to arbitrate as to which can be self-governing and which cannot? And who would govern the latter group?

Ideally, the UN, if it operated as it was initially conceived as. But we all know the score, so I'd say in practice, the neighbors most affected by the disorderly status of the independent nations in question in a joint venture, as rankling and repugnant as this may be for the subjects to be intervened. As for the case of the one most immediately affecting us, I'd say this joint directing force should be conformed by DR, Cuba, Jamaica, Bahamas and Turks and Caicos.

[Tooting Carmen]

Ideally, the UN, if it operated as it was initially conceived as. But we all know the score, so I'd say in practice, the neighbors most affected by the disorderly status of the independent nations in question in a joint venture, as rankling and repugnant as this may be for the subjects to be intervened. As for the case of the one most immediately affecting us, I'd say this joint directing force should be conformed by DR, Cuba, Jamaica, Bahamas and Turks and Caicos.

The UN is in practice deeply corrupt and dysfunctional. Paradoxically, its main problems are excessive dominance by the traditional powers on the one hand - the Security Council, where five countries either alone or in unison can literally out-veto the rest of the planet - AND too much power given to tinpot tyrannies on the other - the Human Rights Council, which practically every nasty regime short of North Korea has at some point sat on. All the same, you could have regional bodies intervening in troubled nations. Even in Africa, ECOWAS has successfully intervened in countries such as Liberia, without necessarily requiring assistance from the West, China or Russia.

[Tooting Carmen]

As for the case of the one most immediately affecting us, I'd say this joint directing force should be conformed by DR, Cuba, Jamaica, Bahamas and Turks and Caicos.

The highlighted nations not exactly that prosperous, orderly or well-governed themselves (in different ways). In fact, when I made my "List of neighbouring countries with severe disparities in levels of corruption" thread, one pairing that was notably absent was Haiti-DR. The former scored 2.0 (same as Nicaragua, incidentally), while the latter scored 3.0.

[Andullero]

The highlighted nations not exactly that prosperous, orderly or well-governed themselves (in different ways).

But they are stable, and this trait is paramount to me. The disorderly status of the Haitian enctity is such right now that it wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that they are on the verge of becoming a XXIth century version of the Barbary Pirates enclaves that used to plague the Mediterranean. In a scale of 1-3 of an hemispheric problem barometer, I'd say they are in a comfy 2.5, and I may be generous. Ironically, their characterization as "Caribbean Barbary Pirates" was first given to them by Thomas Jefferson a couple centuries ago.

[Tooting Carmen]

But they are stable, and this trait is paramount to me. The disorderly status of the Haitian enctity right now is such right now that it wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that they are on the verge of becoming a XXIth century version of the Barbary Pirates enclaves that used to plague the Mediterranean. In a scale of 1-3 of an hemispheric problem barometer, I'd say they are in a comfy 2.5, and I may be generous. Ironically, their characterization as "Caribbean Barbary Pirates" was first given to them by Thomas Jefferson a couple centuries ago.

Haiti has for several decades been a particularly problematic country in the Caribbean, but do not kid yourself that the DR is so dramatically superior either. Even compared to the totalitarian and impoverished dictatorship that is Cuba, your corruption score is significantly worse, as is your UNHDI score, and emigration rates from both of the latter two countries are actually pretty similar.

[Andullero]

Haiti has for several decades been a particularly problematic country in the Caribbean, but do not kid yourself that the DR is so dramatically superior either. Even compared to the totalitarian and impoverished dictatorship that is Cuba, your corruption score is significantly worse, as is your UNHDR score, and emigration rates from both of the latter two countries are actually pretty similar.

But we have been taken away from the UN aid economic programs (as well from the USAID's), and are catalogued as a middle income country. Not too shabby, considering the load we have to carry, both ours and the one of the western part. In fact, per capita wise we are neck by neck with Mexico, and are only outmatched in economic performance by Costa Rica and Panama on our immediate vicinity (I don't count PR as it is a US territory, sadly).

[Tooting Carmen]

But we have been taken away from the UN aid economic programs (as well from the USAID's), and are catalogued as a middle income country. Not too shabby, considering the load we have to carry, both ours and the one of the western part. In fact, per capita wise we are neck by neck with Mexico, and are only outmatched in economic performance by Costa Rica and Panama on our immediate vicinity (I don't count PR as it is a US territory, sadly).

OK, but when it comes to things like clean governance, literacy and healthcare, DR is considerably outperformed not only by totalitarian Cuba but indeed by the majority of English-speaking Caribbean countries (even on some measurements at least Jamaica).

[Cranberryjuice]

But we have been taken away from the UN aid economic programs (as well from the USAID's), and are catalogued as a middle income country. Not too shabby, considering the load we have to carry, but ours and the one of the western part. In fact, per capita wise we are neck by neck with Mexico, and am only outmatched in economic performance by Costa Rica and Panama on our immediate vicinity (I don't count PR as it is a US territory, sadly).

Plus, DR economically at least is doing better than the majority of the continent if we exclude the U.S and Canada. Heck, if things continue like this which I don't see it changing since most Latam countries love to flirt with Chavez style governments DR will likely be the 2nd most prosperous country in Latam by 2030:



I hope the best for Haiti and its people but the economic, political stability, and social disparity between both countries has widened significantly in the past decade, and I don't see that stopping anytime soon.

[Andullero]

OK, but when it comes to things like clean governance, literacy and healthcare, DR is considerably outperformed not only by totalitarian Cuba but indeed by the majority of English-speaking Caribbean countries (even on some measurements at least Jamaica).

The healthcare one is up to debate, specially since a good chunk of infant and maternal mortality in this country is being influenced by the pregnant women coming to us from the Haitian part of the island, which come to the country when they are days away from giving birth, and with no prenatal care on their persons whatsoever. On the stats, the UN and most other organizations don't care about migratory status, but only that the person in question having expired lived in the country in question at the time of being deceased.

[Tooting Carmen]

The healthcare one is up to debate, specially since a good chunk of infant and maternal mortality in this country is being influenced by the pregnant women coming to us from the Haitian part of the island, which come to the country when they are days away from giving birth, and with no prenatal care on their persons whatsoever. On the stats, the UN and most other organizations don't care about migratory status, but only that the person in question having expired lived in the country in question at the time of being deceased.

I agree that the Haitian situation makes things worse, but even were Haiti not to exist I still doubt the DR would even be at Barbados or Bahamas levels for the things I just mentioned.