Guess the location of David Reich’s proposed 'Southern Arc'

[papa diddy pop]

Man, Reich will make me believe in jewish conspiracy theories with all the bullshit statement he made with all his pro wog delusional propaganda. Now i'm going to watch some Moonman videos to wash my eyes of all the bullshits I just read.

[Voskos]

@Guti,

Here in A (image from an old paper) you can see the genetic variance of R1b M269 , it peaks in the eastern part of Turkey/fertile crescent /Kurdish/Assyrian lands (frequency as we know it peaks in the Western part of Europe).

[Guti]

Still can't get over the fact that Turkey is home to Batman

Batman is a ridiculous Turkic name Turks gave to that village not a long time ago. Original Kurdic name for that Kurdish village is Êlih.

[Guti]

@Guti,

Here in A (image from an old paper) you can see the genetic variance of R1b M269 , it peaks in the eastern part of Turkey/fertile crescent /Kurdish/Assyrian lands (frequency as we know it peaks in the Western part of Europe).

According to some previous studies Y-DNA hg. R1b* (R-M343*) peaks in a Kurdish population that was deported to Kazakhstan.

The population believed to have the highest proportion of R-M343 (xM73, M269, V88) are the Kurds of southeastern Kazakhstan with 13%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3039512/


I know that there is some native R-M269* (R1b-M269*) in Northwestern Asia, but I think that Reich will hint that most of the R-M269 arrived in Armenia, Kurdistan and Western Iran as back migration from Yamnaya via a Trialeti culture (Armenia/Caucasus_EMBA).


In addition, the variance distribution of the rare R1b-M269* Y chromosomes, displaying decreasing values from Iran, Anatolia and the western Black Sea coastal region, is also suggestive of a westward diffusion from the Iranian plateau, although more complex scenarios can be still envisioned because of its non-star like structure.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3399854/

[Guti]

Don't get me wrong, R-M343* and R-M269* are clearly just a few examples that indicate that there were already some Y-DNA hg. R1b lineages in Armenia, Western Iran, Kurdistan before Yamnaya, but some R1b lineages in those areas can be linked to Yamnaya/Trialeti and the presence of some of those lineages can be seen as a result of back migration.

[Guti]

Also, don't ignore mtDNA.


24% of the Yamnaya mtDNA was hg. H. It was the most frequent mtDNA lineage in the Yamnaya steppes: https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/yam...ml#Y-DNA_mtDNA

MtDNA hg. H. is also the most major mtDNA in Kurds and its distribution in Kurds is 37.1%.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...tbl2_295667105
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15996169/


Recent study shows that the frequency of mtDNA hg. H found among the Sorani Kurds in Sulaymaniyah city is up to 41.6% and that Soran areas of Kurdistan are actually the source place of mtDNA hg. H in Europe!

Whole mitochondrial DNA sequencing in 36 healthy residents of Sulaymaniyah city revealed Western Eurasian 8 haplogroups dominated by H with a strongly negative Tajima's D value indicating a closer genetic relation of the city residents to the European lineage.

https://ejfs.springeropen.com/articl...35-021-00246-2

[Guti]

Russel Gray (Bayesian phylolinguistic model) estimates the whole Indo-European language family at the age of 8100 years.

Watch it from min 27:20.

[Guti]

3 main cultures of the Southern Arc at that time were Hassuna culture to the west of Mesopotamia, Jarmo culture to the east of Kurdistan and Shulaveri–Shomu culture to the north between Northwestern Iran and the Caucasus.

There was an extensive network of trade between those cultures. Raw materials like obsidian and metal were one of those products that were traded.


There is a recent study about the extensive network of trade between those cultures: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/arcm.12660


Recent archaeological research has highlighted the potential role of mobile pastoral groups in the diffusion of raw materials and technological innovations between the southern Caucasus and north-western Iran from the Neolithic onwards.

By focusing on the exploitation of obsidian at multiple levels—local, regional and interregional—we hope to unravel the complexity of the obsidian networks under study.

The Caucasus, at the crossroads of the Eurasian steppes, Anatolia, Iran and Mesopotamia (Fig. 1), is a region characterized by abundant natural resources—salt, metal ores, water and pasturelands—which developed as a focal point for mobile pastoral communities from the Early Chalcolithic onwards, and perhaps even earlier (Marro 2019). Intense volcanic activity in this area produced numerous obsidian outcrops, more than 20 of which have been identified so far (Fig. 1). Between the Palaeolithic and the Iron Age, most of these outcrops provided relatively accessible, high-quality obsidian for the production of a large variety of tools and weapons (Badalyan et al. 2004). Obsidian had indeed a crucial role in the daily life of Prehistoric groups; consequently, it was widely circulated. Owing to its geochemical signature, its distribution is used as an excellent proxy for the study of past circulation networks and exchange systems (Torrence 1986), and the identification of economic hubs and ‘communities of practice’ (Carter 2014). In the long run, it may also be a useful tool for analysing overarching social structures and political processes (e.g., Moutsiou 2014).

the Southern Arc



Tools and weapons made of obsidian. PIEan people fought with those primitive weapons.

[Guti]

Russel Gray (Bayesian phylolinguistic model) estimates the whole Indo-European language family at the age of 8100 years.

8100 years ago fits perfectly with the 'southern' migration of the first stage PIEans into the (northern) Caucasus. There was a huge migration from the 'south' into the Maykop Horizon before 5000 BCE. It is most likely that the people from the 'south' brought some Western Iranic paternal lineages (like Y-DNA hg. L, hg. J1 etc.) into the Maykop Horizon. Later on Maykop people gave shape and Indo-Europeanised the people who later became known as the second stage PIEan Yamnaya people. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/322347v1.full


Furthermore, this is what Iosif Lazaridis said years ago about the 3-way mixture model.

I just wanted to leave a brief comment that the model of Steppe_EMBA as a mixture of EHG+CHG is rejected (Table S7.11), while that of EHG+Iran_ChL is not. Note that in Table S7.11 we are modeling Steppe_EMBA and the references with respect to 13 outgroup populations (the set O9ALNW), not all of which are included in the TreeMix graph.

... As we mention further down, that doesn't mean there is no CHG-related ancestry in Steppe_EMBA as we can model it as a 3-way mixture involving CHG as one of the sources. What it does mean, however, is that CHG+EHG cannot be the only sources, as this model is rejected (Table S7.11).

… Overall, our admixture analysis rejects several possible models (such as EHG+CHG) and thus puts constraints on what may have happened, and also proposes some models that are more resilient to rejection (such as EHG+Iran_ChL+CHG).

eurogenes.blogspot.com/2016/06/yamnaya-eastern-hunter-gatherers-iran.html

The Caucasus, an area that today includes parts of Russia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia, Iran and Turkey, is a crucial intersection for the history of Europe, both genetically and culturally. Today it is one of the regions of the world with the highest linguistic diversity, and in the past, populations from the Caucasus were instrumental in shaping the genetic components of today's Europeans.

"We assume that in the wake of the Neolithic period, sometime before 5,000 BC when a more sedentary lifestyle with domesticated animals and plants was established, populations from the southern Caucasus spread over the mountains to the north and there met with nomadic populations from the Eurasian steppe," says Dr. Wolfgang Haak, group leader for molecular anthropology at the MPI-SHH and leader of the study.

Over the centuries, an interaction zone was formed, where the traditions of the Mesopotamian civilization and those of the Caucasus met with the cultures of the steppe.

The current paleogenetic study paints a more nuanced picture of mobility during the Bronze Age. People with a distinct southern Caucasus ancestry were already north of the mountain ridges by the 5th millennium BC. It is highly likely that these groups formed the basis for the local Early Bronze Age Maykop culture of the 4th millennium BC. Intriguingly, the Maykop individuals tested are genetically distinct from the groups in the adjacent steppes to the north.

"The genetic results do not support scenarios of large-scale migrations from the south during the Maykop period, or even from the northwest, as was postulated by some archaeologists. These findings have major implications for our understanding of the local development of North Caucasus cultures in the 4th millennium BC," explains Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. Svend Hansen, Director of the DAI's Eurasia-Department.

https://www.technologynetworks.com/g...ultures-314933

The massive population shifts in the 3rd millennium BC, in connection with the expansion of the groups from the steppe who were part of what is known as the Yamnaya culture, have long been associated with the transfer of significant technological innovations from Mesopotamia to Europe. Recent studies at the DAI's Eurasia department on the spread of early wagons or metal weapons have shown, however, that an intensive exchange between Europe, the Caucasus and Mesopotamia began much earlier.

https://www.shh.mpg.de/1196995/pr-caucasus-haak

[kingmob]

There's a rumor circulating that there's going to be 16 new samples from IRN-Hasanlu that are R1b-Z2103 and 0% EHG.

Maybe L584s like F38?

Friday can't come quickly enough.