Vojvodina: Serb or Hungarian ?

[Varda]

Serbs lived in present day and surrounding areas much before 1690. Migration from 1690. only increased number of Serbs. Parts of Vojvodina (Syrmia and southern Banat) had Serbian majority since second half of 15th century.

Many notable Serbs are born in present day Vojvodina and other areas of former or present day Hungary before 1690.
- Jovan Monasterlija is born in Komarno in Hungary (present day Slovakia) in 1660 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jovan_Monasterlija
- Count Đorđe Branković is born in Jenopolje (Ineu) in Hungary or present day western Romania in 1645 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Đorđe_Branković_(count)
- Đorđe Branković despot is born in Syrmia (part of present day Vojvodina) in 1461 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Đorđe_Branković
- Jovan Branković was also born in Syrmia in 1465 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jovan_Branković
- Pera Segedinac is born in one village near Arad in modern western Romania in 1655 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pera_Segedinac
etc.

[Wizz]

Looking at Kosovo's history from a non-fabricated view, there is actually more Albanian history in that place than what your people have. Your peoples history there seems to mainly be confined between 12th to the final Ottoman take over, though Western Towns of Kosova were held by Albanians Dukagjini and Kastriot, that's why we don't call it Metohija but ''Rrafshi i Dukajinit'' and the battle of Kosovo 1389 was a coalition between various Balkan states including Albanians. But of course fabricated to make it look like some pure Serbian battle and ''heavenly people''. In Battle of Kosovo 1448 your despotate became Turkish boot cleaners and fought against Albanians and Hungarian troops. Yet you claim you have been leading a fight against Ottomans for 500 years and Orthodox people were oppressed when it was literally Catholic Albanians who organized the resistance against Ottomans in 1689-90 and Muslim Albanians. Catholics suffered more under Ottoman rule. And even many Muslims rose against the Ottomans.


In 1912 you came back like a bunch of occupants and Albanians were pretty much people that were defending their land

The Albanian national resistance was put up in two ways: in the legal way, by the Muslim organisation Cemiyet, and in the revolutionary way, by fighting with arms by Albanian national detachments that are called ‘kaçakë' (outlaws). We shall speak of Cemiyet later. The Serbian government attempted to present Albanian ‘kaçaks' as robbers and put them out of the law. Every governmental service and every Serbian fascist has the right to kill them. ‘Kaçaks' in fact are not robbers at all, but they are good Albanian guerrillas. There are people that can sacrifice everything, their houses, property and goods, and go to mountains, form guerrilla detachments and fight against the misdeeds and barbarisms of Serbian military and police. ‘Kaçaks' believe they can dislodge the Serbian regime from Kosova in that way. These national warriors have fought a great fight, a fight that ought to be admired, against very big forces of Serbian gendarmerie and military. The names of Bajram Curri, Azem Bejta and hundreds of other brave men that have fallen at that war, have been carved in the hearts of the Albanians of Kosova. In 1920 more than 10,000 ‘kaçaks' were on the mountains of Kosova. There were 2,000 of them in Llab only. In 1920, in the time of the uprising of Llab, the Serbian military, under the command of colonel Radovan Rodovic, bombarded the big Albanian village of Prapashtica, and all the houses were ruined. Similar to Llab, Albanian national movements were organised in many other regions of Kosova, and were crushed by great Serbian forces in 1919 and 1924. We can mention here the movements of Plava, Gucia, Rugova in 1919, of Prishtina in 1921, Drenica in 1923, Mitrovica in 1924 and again of Drenica in 1924. By quelling these uprisings, the Serbian military killed 2,600 Albanians.

Words from a Serb himself, Kosta Novakovic.


In Vojvodina you had barely lived for a hundred years or so and started pushing for independence.

[Wizz]

Northern Albanian tribes that joined the Austrians in 1689-90:

If, as seems likely, some of these chiefs had been summoned by Bogdani, we might expect them to have included the leaders
of Catholic clans in the nearby parts of the Malesi; and, indeed, an Ottoman document written in February 1690 (just three months later) does refer to a large group of mostly Catholic clans from that area (including the warlike Fandi) who had allied themselves with the Austrians.

Yet claim it was a Serb revolt and after that ''mass immigration'' of Catholics from Northern Albania that came at the hands of the Ottomans and forcibly Islamised




All a bunch of fabricated history. Nationalist fairytale.

[Blondie]

Okay i understand that albanians and serbs are hostile towards each other, but why bring hungarians on here?

[Wizz]

In another version it is claimed they were already Islamised, but let's see what texts say about that in 1600's from Northern Albania:

There are certain other peoples on the plain of Shkodra, the people of Drivasto (Drisht), Pieterspani (Pjetërspan), Zapatensi (Sapa), Sardanensi (Sarda), Lezha, Kruja, Durrës, Issemi (Ishëm), Pretia (Preza), Andronichi (Ndroq), Albassani (Elbasan) and many other places and castles, great in number and all Catholic. Although there are Muslims among them, they are Catholic in the majority. They are all armed and amount to eight thousand fighters most desirous to receive a bit of aid in order to be freed. This is true not only of the Christians, but also of the leaders of the Muslims and of those who deny the faith because they too cannot put up with the tyranny of the Turks. As such, they all want to be liberated once and for all from such great suffering, or to die arms in hand.

Those who are not so tyrannized live as Catholics, the Kelmendi in particular, who inhabit the mountains above Lake Shkodra and consist of six thousand warriors. These are brave men and determined people whom the Turks have never been able to dominate or get tribute from since they always go about with weapons in their hands. Like them are their allies, the Kuçi and the Piperi, together with the Markovici, who have just as many courageous men at their disposal. Aside from these, there are many other peoples and areas around Shkodra which all desperately want to see themselves freed one day.

In another region, towards Croia (Kruja), are the Dukagjini, who rebelled against the Turks thirty years ago. They also consist of the same number of six thousand warriors, all with arms. They are as determined and brave as any people one could find on earth and are very skilled in military matters. They live in the mountains above Lezha between Shkodra and Kruja. Up to now, they have done great damage to the Turks with their continual incursions, destroying Turkish castles and lands. They have been victorious in all of their battles with the Turks, their principal enemy, and are all Catholics and very devoted to the Holy Church of Rome.

Towards the border of Macedonia and Bulgaria, there is another region of peoples which is called the Scanderbeg Country, i.e. Ematia (Mat), Benda (Bena), Corbini (Kurbin), Tamadea and Cermenica (Çermenika) situated in the mountains above Kruja and Elbasani (Elbasan), although they are mixed with Muslims. Most of them, however, are Christians and are no less strong and warlike. They are all armed and consist of five thousand warriors, all of whom are most desirous of seeing the flag of some Christian prince flying over them one day, who would assist them however little, and join and unite with them against the Turks to throw the latter out of the country, just as they had hoped in the past when the Marquis of Santa Croce took Durazzo (Durrës).

1621 Pjetër Budi: An Albanian Bishop Calls for an Uprising



''Mass immigration from Northern Albania at the hands of the Ottomans''

[Victor]

Okay i understand that albanians and serbs are hostile towards each other, but why bring hungarians on here?

I hate this pan-balkanite obsession with "who was first living there" (most of ex-Yu and albos are about it) while Magyars came from nowhere and conquered those lands without giving a damn Same as Russians, what is taken by us is ours, no matter 50 or 500 years ago and still not obsessed as some tribes, taking it someway different.

[Insuperable]

I hate this pan-balkanite obsession with "who was first living there" (most of ex-Yu and albos are about it) while Magyars came from nowhere and conquered those lands without giving a damn Same as Russians, what is taken by us is ours, no matter 50 or 500 years ago and still not obsessed as some tribes, taking it someway different.

No wonder why you are loved all over the world.

[Wizz]

By the time the Patriarchate was re-established at Pec, the town of Pec itself may already have gained an absolute majority of Muslims. At the same time, there is an increasing evidence that parts of Western Kosovo had a significant ethnic Albanian population, evidence which goes beyond anything that can be demonstrated for the medieval period.

Patriarchate of Pec was restored in 1557 by the Ottomans.

Let's see if there was a mass immigration from Northern Albania:

Serbian historians explain the growth of an Albanian population in Kosovo during the early Ottoman period in terms of physical immigration: it is suggested that Albanians from the Malesi were encouraged by the Ottomans to settle in Kosovo, that many of these turned to Islam to gain the advantages of superior status, and that those Slavs who became Muslims were not merely Islamicized but, sooner or later, Albanianized as well.

The Ottoman officials usually noted which heads of family were new arrivals in their places of residence; out of 121 new arrivals in the nahiye of Pec in 1485, the majority had Slav names. In the sancak of Prizren in 1591, only five new arrivals out of forty-one bore Albanian names; and in a group of Kosovo towns in the 1580's and 1590's there were twenty five new Albanian immigrants and 133 with Slav names - several of them described as coming from Bosnia. This evidence counts strongly against the idea of mass immigration from northern Albania. Other more general arguments against that idea are based on relative population sizes and rates of growth. The population of Kosovo during this period was much bigger than that of northern and central Albania, and its rate of growth was actually lower. This is not what one would expect if a large overflow from the Albanian Malesi were flooding into Kosovo.

What a straightforward reading of all this evidence would suggest is that there were significant reservoirs of a mainly Catholic Albanian speaking population in parts of Western Kosovo; and evidence from the following century suggests that many of these eventually became Muslims. Weather Albanian-speakers were a majority in Western Kosovo at this time seems very doubtul, and it is clear that they were a small minority in the east. On the other hand, it is also clear that the Albanian minority in Eastern Kosovo predated the Ottoman conquest.

- Kosovo: A Short History

Lazaro Soranzo, in the late sixteenth century, writing of 'Albanians, who live as Catholics, and observing that Prizren was inhabited ' more by Albanians than by Serbs')

This is the fabricated history that you have been taught.




Yet you live in Vojvodina for hundred years and you start pushing for independence ? You migrate to Bosnia, Croatia etc...... what is going on here ? You start conflict in Macedonia, Kosova ....... You fabricate Kosova's history ..... what is going on here ?

[hazmatnik]

1337 on a spree after being banned on Eupedia

[Jankec]

1337 on a spree after being banned on Eupedia

The same thing with a monkey who writes here under the nick "Dušan". This jerk was permanently banned on Hercegbosna forum (he called himself "Vujadin" there), so he has moved here. Btw. I don't have problems with banned trolls until they are not sick of hate.