Classify a youth rugby team from Donegal Ireland

[gixajo]

According to the supplementary information they only used Castilian speakers for samples with origins in Spain (honorable mention to 2 Galician speakers) and Portuguese samples while in Italy they used more ethnically diverse samples such as French and German speakers.
We already knew that all the Peninsula bar the Pyrenean area is very similar. Portugal, Andalusia, Castile, Galicia, etc. are very close genetically with the same distances you find within the British Isles, but what makes the Iberian Peninsula so heterogeneous is the Pyrenean area and specially Catalans and Basques.

Castillian speakers can cover all the spectrum of genetics in Spain, from purest Basques to most extremes Canarians.

[Defcon2]

The Andalusians overlap a lot with the Balearic but less with the Catalans.

[gixajo]

Using just Castillian references to model the last reference you used to represent Catalonian genetics.

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha,0.1155305,0.1480135,0.040352,-0.00323,0.0420845,-0.004811,-0.0017038,0.0017308,0.024645,0.0339415,-0.0021108,0.008692,-0.015275,-0.012386,0.010281,-0.0010605,-0.0060302,-0.00019,-0.0001257,-0.000688,0.005459,0.0014837,-0.0010477,-0.003886,-0.0010778
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon,0.1077523,0.1438667,0.0404773,-0.0021533,0.0438027,0.0018593,-0.0017233,0.004615,0.0284287,0.0292183,-0.0023277,0.007843,-0.012091,-0.012019,0.01226,-0.006541,-0.0067797,-0.0017313,-0.004525,-0.0022927,0.000291,-0.0009067,0.0013147,-0.0025703,-0.002754
Spanish_La_Rioja,0.1215837,0.149929,0.0451515,0.0007635,0.0480647,-0.0034987,-0.0022218,0.0018671,0.0249705,0.0372257,-0.001609,0.0082016,-0.0191771,-0.0138623,0.0097843,0.0018079,-0.0008535,0.0005644,-0.0035424,-0.0003866,0.0059782,-0.000652,-0.0059718,-0.0064084,0.0006531
Spanish_Soria,0.121791,0.1421745,0.0499685,0.0075905,0.0475475,0.001255,-0.0029375,-0.001269,0.0206565,0.0374495,-0.010474,0.01139,-0.017393,-0.0228455,0.0114005,0.0145185,0.01356,-0.002914,-0.0040855,-0.0006875,-0.000312,-0.001422,-0.003759,-0.0059045,-0.0020955
Spanish_Burgos,0.1236117,0.1476578,0.0497421,0.0020672,0.0495476,-0.0034583,-0.000611,0.000877,0.0240111,0.0378322,-0.0068692,0.0086174,-0.0189989,-0.0126612,0.0114276,0.0019225,-0.0059585,-0.0001141,-0.0034943,-0.0038143,0.0077986,0.0006554,-0.0041904,-0.0021207,-0.0007785
Spanish_Cantabria,0.116187,0.14608,0.0436589,0.0008448,0.0469436,-0.0038616,-0.0003435,0.0022544,0.0250463,0.0325782,-0.0051589,0.0084041,-0.0158838,-0.0142492,0.0101477,0.0010708,-0.0021562,-0.0013936,-0.0035291,-0.0031265,0.0033402,-0.0017312,-0.0045412,-0.0040969,-0.0005988

Target: Spanish_Catalunya_Central
Distance: 1.2956% / 0.01295553
38.8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
23.6 Spanish_Soria
19.0 Spanish_La_Rioja
15.4 Spanish_Burgos
3.2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon


Distance to: Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.01505620 Spanish_Cantabria
0.01536337 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.01757852 Spanish_Burgos
0.01805320 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.02596791 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.02749970 Spanish_Soria

If we add the any of the "most Basque" references in Spain:

Basque_Gipuzkoa,0.1309999,0.1484519,0.0538941,0.0111875,0.055199,0.0012676,-0.003995,0.0005454,0.0297675,0.0415664,-0.0054623,0.0126024,-0.0206367,-0.0177406,0.0159533,0.0058461,-0.0030225,0.0014051,-0.0006855,-0.0051503,0.005615,-0.001259,-0.0104089,-0.0103627,0.0014043

Target: Spanish_Catalunya_Central
Distance: 1.2956% / 0.01295553
38.8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
23.6 Spanish_Soria
19.0 Spanish_La_Rioja
15.4 Spanish_Burgos
3.2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Distance to: Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.01505620 Spanish_Cantabria
0.01536337 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.01757852 Spanish_Burgos
0.01805320 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.02596791 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.02749970 Spanish_Soria
0.03034194 Basque_Gipuzkoa

Closest to all these Castillian references than to Basque.(and Guipúzcoa is the easternmost province of the Basque Country and the closest to Pyrenees, althought it´s true I didn´t use the Basque Nabarrese or French references because of the historical links with France and Aragón).

[gixajo]

.

This would be the most Irish looking among these you posted.

Within my limited knowledge as foreigner of what the "irish looking" is, of course.

[gixajo]

The Andalusians overlap a lot with the Balearic but less with the Catalans.

]

Maybe North-South gradient more than anything.

I would be more interested in isolating some type of "Eastern Iberian" component than any "purest Catalonian" component, that even if it could exist, I doubt that it is really descriptive of the vast majority of the native Catalan population. (I am not talking about "new Catalans").

Anyway if that Catalonian guy can find it, I have not any problem in accepting the "unmistakable specificity of Catalan genetics".

Although today, it is quite clear that within the "Iberian" category, the extremes of the interval that includes the Iberian genetics are the Canary Islands and the Basques. (as a group), and that even between these extreme groups, there is still overlapping with all the intermediate groups.

[Oliver109]

That is just subjective though and not based on anything more than your opinion.

Are you telling me that these Donegal women below just look Irish and couldn't pass in Scotland?







I just find it odd that you say people that are Irish look more Scottish or English instead of saying there is overlap in populations. Of course there are people that look more Irish or more English but there is a lot of overlap in looks because they are neighbouring populations.

The first woman, i am not sure how Scottish looking she is, can pass definitely but there is something almost eastern European looking about her, probably the nose and eye shape, second girl passes fine in the UK, girl on right in last pic looks a bit Balkan. The Irish seem to have more darker and less typically northern looking types than Scotland, when i visited Scotland i noticed just how northern shifted and robust a lot of the population was, especially in the east of the country. In the picture i posted on this thread i would say that the following boys would be very atypical in GB: Daire Tully, Donal Farrelly, Matthew Callaghan, Noah Reid, Michael McCarron, Cian McKenna, Cormac McGinn, Tommy Winters.

[Defcon2]

The first woman, i am not sure how Scottish looking she is, can pass definitely but there is something almost eastern European looking about her, probably the nose and eye shape, second girl passes fine in the UK, girl on right in last pic looks a bit Balkan. The Irish seem to have more darker and less typically northern looking types than Scotland, when i visited Scotland i noticed just how northern shifted and robust a lot of the population was, especially in the east of the country. In the picture i posted on this thread i would say that the following boys would be very atypical in GB: Daire Tully, Donal Farrelly, Matthew Callaghan, Noah Reid, Michael McCarron, Cian McKenna, Cormac McGinn, Tommy Winters.

^Photo They are basically Russians, Serbs with a minor romance component.

[Immanenz]

The first woman, i am not sure how Scottish looking she is, can pass definitely but there is something almost eastern European looking about her, probably the nose and eye shape, second girl passes fine in the UK, girl on right in last pic looks a bit Balkan. The Irish seem to have more darker and less typically northern looking types than Scotland, when i visited Scotland i noticed just how northern shifted and robust a lot of the population was, especially in the east of the country. In the picture i posted on this thread i would say that the following boys would be very atypical in GB: Daire Tully, Donal Farrelly, Matthew Callaghan, Noah Reid, Michael McCarron, Cian McKenna, Cormac McGinn, Tommy Winters.

i ve seen some Brits who look like them tbh. Some of them have French/German, even Russian/Polish vibe. They do lack the more "Scandinavic" shifted types which Scotland/England have more until Norb comes and says otherwise.

Btw could you post a Scottish and English team in the same age for comparison ?

[Oliver109]

i ve seen some Brits who look like them tbh. Some of them have French/German, even Russian/Polish vibe. They do lack the more "Scandinavic" shifted types which Scotland/England have more until Norb comes and says otherwise.

Btw could you post a Scottish and English team in the same age for comparison ?

Agree Immanenz, here are boys and young men from Arbroath Scotland, not much difference in pigmentation but less distinctive facial features than in Ireland but still quite similar, moreso than to Scandinavia


Sevenoaks Kent England





All in all the variation isn't that big and seems to suggest that Britain is on the whole not especially nordic contrary to stereotypes though being sports teams less Nordic types might be selected.

[Grace O'Malley]

For comparison purposes here's some from other areas of Ireland.

Munster

U18



U19



Connacht