The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

[Blondie]

And then there was the island of Numenor which was like the equivalent of ancient Greece.

Númenor was rather Atlantis, with similar architecture like Venice. The númenórean kingdoms (Arnor, Gondor) were similar to Roman Empire, Greece.

Are there any areas that are similar to East Asians?

Yeah for sure, in Far Rhûn, but Tolkien did not mention it.

I think I have read that Saruman traveled with them and only returned, in fact the eastern lands are one of the great mysteries of Middle Earth, Tolkien did not talk much about it.

Not just Saruman, but Aragorn too.

So this would be the order from strongest to weakest.
1- Sauron in the second age
2- Morgoth in the first age
3- Sauron in the third age.

Although if we talk at the army level I think Morgoth wins.

My list would be:

1. Morgoth in the most First Age.
2. Sauron in the late Second Age.
3. Morgoth in the late First Age.
4. Sauron in Third and First Age.

[Blondie]

Tolkien was a prophet,West=white people,Sauron=globalhomo agenda,Sauron's army=Muslim and African immigrants,The book perfectly corresponding with Europe's reality.

You dont understand this whole mythology. There is no racism in Tolkien's world. There were evil white humans too like angmarim, hillmen of Rhudaur, dunlendings. Hierarchy is not racially but rather geographical, cultural. The númenóreans were the best humans but just because they were closest to godly Valinor and it's light. This is the only reason.
Easterlings and haradrim were not original evil, they were just corrupted and lived far away from Valinor. Obviously tons of easterling have fought against Sauron and they rebelled by blue wizards against the Dark Lord. Even the blonde blue eyed hillmen or rohirrim were inferior compared to swarthy númenóreans. But this is all just culturally not racially.

[Kyp]

Are there any areas that are similar to East Asians?

.

No but he descrbed Orcs as the most ugly version of Mongols (broad faced etc..)

[kingmob]

Gondor is Constantinople, Anor is Western Rome, Rohirim are the Anglo-Germanic tribes. Orcs = Turks.

Pretty much.

[kingmob]

From "Reader's Companion", "EXTRACTS FROM A LETTER BY J.R.R. TOLKIEN TO MILTON WALDMAN, LATE 1951, ON THE LORD OF THE RINGS":

The Fifth Book returns to the precise point at which Book Three ended. Gandalf on his great horse (with the Hobbit Peregrin Took) passing along the great 'north-road', South to Gondor. Now we come to the half-ruinous Byzantine City of Minas Tirith, and meet its grim lord, the old proud wizard-like Steward, Denethor. He prepares for war and hopeless siege. The last levies from the remaining fiefs march in. The great darkness comes. The Nazgul ride the air, cowing all hearts. Slowly the assault begins and mounts in fire and terror. Denethor commits suicide. The Sorcerer-King, Captain of the Black Riders, overthrows the 'unbreakable' gates of the City. Gandalf alone is left to face him.


Letter 131 to Milton Waldman by J.R.R. Tolkien:

In the south Gondor rises to a peak of power, almost reflecting Númenor, and then fades slowly to decayed Middle Age, a kind of proud, venerable, but increasingly impotent Byzantium.

[Kyp]

Tolkien hated allegory.

I think people need to stop looking for real-life "versions" of Middle earth stuff.

I strongly believe that it was never Tolkiens intention to write his versions of real-life folk or anything.

For example on the connection between Jews and Dwarfes he said:

“I didn’t intend it, but when you’ve got these people on your hands, you’ve got to make them different, haven’t you?”

So in other words: The dwarfes are influeced by Jews but they are not his version of the jews. The Hobbits are inspired by the English but they are not his version of the English.

[Hektor12]

Nope, easterlings are inspired by central asian steppe nomads.

I grew up with hopes that orcs are steppe barbars and uruk-hai are in particular Turks. Because Battle of Helm's Deep is obviously inspired by Siege of Vienna. When i learned that Turks arent uruk-hai but easterlings i was so upset..

[Blondie]

Tolkien hated allegory.

I think people need to stop looking for real-life "versions" of Middle earth stuff.

I strongly believe that it was never Tolkiens intention to write his versions of real-life folk or anything.

For example on the connection between Jews and Dwarfes he said:



So in other words: The dwarfes are influeced by Jews but they are not his version of the jews. The Hobbits are inspired by the English but they are not his version of the English.

The reason why did Tolkien create the LOTR is he wanted an own anglo-saxon mythology, this world is basically a human prehistory in anglo-saxon mythology form:

Also – and here I hope I shall not sound absurd – I was from early days grieved by the poverty of my own beloved country: it had no stories of its own (bound up with its tongue and soil), not of the quality that I sought, and found (as an ingredient) in legends of other lands. There was Greek, and Celtic, and Romance, Germanic, Scandinavian, and Finnish (which greatly affected me); but nothing English, save impoverished chap-book stuff. Of course there was and is all the Arthurian world, but powerful as it is, it is imperfectly naturalized, associated with the soil of Britain but not with English; and does not replace what I felt to be missing. For one thing its 'faerie' is too lavish, and fantastical, incoherent and repetitive. For another and more important thing: it is involved in, and explicitly contains the Christian religion.

For reasons which I will not elaborate, that seems to me fatal. Myth and fairy-story must, as all art, reflect and contain in solution elements of moral and religious truth (or error), but not explicit, not in the known form of the primary 'real' world. (I am speaking, of course, of our present situation, not of ancient pagan, pre-Christian days. And I will not repeat what I tried to say in my essay, which you read.)

Letter 131

Its not canon but if you know the MERP, they describes how the Third Age is connecting to our world:

Fourth Age:

-1000 year era of peace in the Westlands (maybe minor conflicts in the West but great Wars East and South)
-Fading of the remainingElves (and Orcs?)
-Dwarves and Halflings becoming dying and marginalized races (Hobbits becoming a poor and scattered Folk)
-Rise of Dark Cults (Herumor) and Superstition; Emerging of Magic or occult traditions from the East (legacy of the Ithryn Luin) Decline of Eruist Religion; Decline of True or Elvish Magic.
-War against or integration of former Sauronic vassal realms and Diadochs (Khand, Mordor,Núrn, Umbar, Harad, Rhun...)
-Rise of the Rohirrim/Northmen ("Horse-Men") as major power base of the Reunited Kingdom (A New Nobility descending from the Rohirrim?)
-Formerly backward Tribal realms becoming more modern Kingdoms under Telcontari Souvereignty (Dunland, Hollin, Núrn, Angmar, Enedhwaith,Minhiriath...)
-Age of Men; No great supernatural power or enemy left (themes change into more mundane or human affairs and political intrigue)
-Problem of Iron Age/Steel (fabrication restricted by Telcontari Kings?); Technological stagnancy and decline (after the climax of the 1000 year peace?); Copper more common
-Changing of Names and languages (Westron becoming "the Old language"; Tribal Dialects emerging; Some old Elvish and archaic Placenames becoming the origin of prehistoric Toponyms and Ethnonyms)
-Elven languages and placenames dying out; Westron placenames becoming common, westron splitting up into regional dialects
-Elessar becoming a legendary figure; Telcontari - Wandering Kings?
-after 1000 Years, Lastkings and dissolution of the reunited Kingdom; new Tribes emerging from the scattering)
-Geography changing into modern Day Europe (a new Flood/Earthquakes; Plate Tectonics; real floods ca. 4.000 & 1.500 BV)
-Spread of agriculture, while certain crops (pipeweed, potatoes) die out
-Rise of New Stars (Thuban?, Theta Bootis?)?
https://notionclubarchives.fandom.com/wiki/Fourth_Age



Fifth Age:

-F.A 1-1000 - Following the Civil Wars of the Dúnedain, their realm is reorganized as a single, centralized empire. That realm is vast and wide, and its rulers exact tribute from the realms of Rhovanion, the peoples of which withdraw into nomadic tendencies in accordance. Trade is exacted also from the wide realms of Harad and Rhûn. In Harad, local peoples adopt Dúnedan customs, and the roots of proto-Egyptian and pre-israelite civilizations begin to develop. In the East, the Men of the Orocarni, possibly relatives of the Ûbain or Lôkhans, taught by the Ithryn Luin or their successors, adopt many of their crafts, becoming an empire in themselves (this is identified with the rise of proto-Chinese and other East-Asian civilizations.) The Hobbits, while remaining subject to the Dúnedain, become an isolated people; they cease trade with Men save for those of Bree, and begin taking to woods and valleys, as well as shrinking further in size. The Barakul-Dwarves of Ironhome in the north migrate southwards, originally to trade with the Dúnedain, but then to prepare for migration southwards, where greater riches and independence lie.

-F.A 1000-2000 - The Empire of Adûnabar begins to become corrupt. A cult rises within it, based upon ancient Dark Worship (possibly a variant on the Cult of Herumor), and various mistranslated forms of the history of the Elder Days are produced, identifying the Valar as gods in themselves, and Morgoth as their chief; this gives rise to the first prominent forms of paganism in the Westlands, and over time, oppression of the Eruist and monotheistic peoples begins. The realms of the east, chief among them the Empire of Xia in Far Rhun, are beset by conquering hosts, and Harad is laid under tribute. By the later age, the Dúnedain Realm has become corrupt and swollen, and they begin to exterminate their brother-peoples. The Orcs, having previously resurfaced in the late Fourth Age, migrate to the eastern borders of the Dúnedain Realm in the Last Desert, and there they enslave the local men; most gradually go extinct. Others of Orc-kind flee into deep Harad, becoming wild and beastly, and losing their capacity for speech and craft. The Hobbits continue to withdraw, and become a near-mythical people. Many of the Sindar who remain retreat into the north of Dor Bendor, gathering under Atyaro Hellor and preserving their culture into the latter ages, while the remaining Eldar flee westwards in great convoys, sundering their ancient alliance with the Dúnedain; and with them flee many of the faithful.

-F.A 1900 - the last of the Dúnedain kings, Mattushalakh the Old, reigns, and attempts to reverse the corruption of his folk. His son, Nôhakh, receives visions from Eru Iluvatar, portending the doom of the world, and he builds in secret a great ship, the Markirya.

-F.A 2000 - In answer to the prayers of the Faithful and of the Eldar, the Valar once more call upon Eru to intervene in the fate of the world. In response, Eru prompts the Great Flood; vast storms shatter the world's coastlines, and the seas swell over the continents. The coasts of the Westlands shrink dramatically, and they become a series of broken peninsulas, known afterwards as Europe; the continent of Harad swells and a vast desert is unveiled in its north, and here the Markirya of Nôhakh settles and its people also, for a time; and the Orocarni of the East are drowned, and the remnant of Rhun becomes a series of vast plains and steppes, and the few cultures that survive the flood remain largely here. But the remains Dúnadan Realms are sundered; most of its folk tragically perish, including Mattushalakh its last king, and the remnant survive only on the sundered isle of Luthany, where their descendants persist as the nomadic proto-Celtic society.

https://notionclubarchives.fandom.com/wiki/Fifth_Age

[Blondie]

I grew up with hopes that orcs are steppe barbars and uruk-hai are in particular Turks. Because Battle of Helm's Deep is obviously inspired by Siege of Vienna. When i learned that Turks arent uruk-hai but easterlings i was so upset..

Nope, Turks are easterling

[Hektor12]

Nope, Turks are easterling