The strange rise of Yamnaya ancestry in Iberia

**Jingle Bell** · 09-20-2022, 09:45 PM

Hi guys, i was playing with some Iberians sampleswhich i got in other thread in TA
Samples:
Celtiberian:Iberia_North_IA,0.125205,0.1431895,0.0 65053,0.0114665,0.058011,0.003347,-0.0034075,0.0045,0.026077,0.034989,-0.002192,0.0088425,-0.0169475,-0.0085325,0.0107215,6.65e-05,-0.008279,0.0008865,-0.000126,-0.00075,0.0082355,0.0023495,-0.0070865,-0.0118085,-0.0061075 Iberian_&_Tartessian:Iberia_Southeast_BA,0.1269128,0.157153 2,0.055625,-0.0073482,0.0667815,-0.006763,-0.0067562,0.0053652,0.048063,0.0672453,-0.0018675,0.0116522,-0.0258298,-0.0177187,0.005225,0.0056685,0.0052478,-0.0016785,0.0006285,0.0003122,0.0087348,0.001082,-0.0048685,-0.0211775,-0.0010475 Iberian_&_Tartessian:Iberia_Central_BA,0.1239044,0.1505886, 0.059639,0.0003691,0.0686281,-0.0074901,-0.0052371,-0.0001319,0.0395609,0.0550354,-0.0029926,0.01291,-0.0243167,-0.019621,0.0066116,0.0103233,0.0156089,-0.0004163,-0.0021549,0.0007146,0.0115154,-0.0001766,-0.0088561,-0.020261,0.0028397 Iberian_&_Tartessian:Iberia_North_BA,0.1242568,0.154699,0.0 555627,0.004522,0.0679613,-0.002417,-0.0025068,0.0038458,0.0341553,0.0550352,-0.0043032,0.0096663,-0.0209117,-0.0154367,0.0064918,0.0047733,0.0091053,0.0049197,-0.0011732,-0.002522,0.0091712,0.0056468,-0.0093462,-0.0190388,0.003752 Iberian_&_Tartessian:Iberia_Northeast_BA,0.1263438,0.150298 2,0.0608579,0.0031896,0.066897,-0.0059264,-0.0008225,-0.0004904,0.038834,0.055058,-0.0028212,0.0090484,-0.025644,-0.0184072,0.0007975,0.0107232,0.0113922,0.0003484, 0.0009271,0.0039394,0.0108089,0.0023186,-0.0131569,-0.0163879,0.0003441 Lusitanian:Iberia_Southwest_BA,0.1200835,0.1497905 ,0.050534,-0.0134045,0.064166,-0.0133865,-0.0019975,0.0047305,0.046018,0.062416,-0.003735,0.012214,-0.022894,-0.013212,0.0059715,-0.0007955,-0.0037815,-0.003864,0.001571,0.003064,0.0146615,0.0007415,-0.00758,-0.0265095,0.002215 Imperial_Roman:ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.14951 56,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141 Broadly_North_African:Canary_Islands_Guanche,-0.0393828,0.1314096,-0.0023384,-0.0687344,0.0337292,-0.0363672,-0.0299874,0.008261,0.0708878,0.0305428,0.0075674,-0.0059948,0.0182554,-0.0176982,0.0232082,-0.0130468,0.0031814,-0.019206,-0.044321,0.010405,-0.0134762,-0.0377142,0.0232692,-0.0011806,0.0046224 Early_Germanic:FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,0.135449,0.1218 64,0.083344,0.072352,0.047393,0.019522,-0.0094,0.005077,0.011453,0.001276,0.001137,0.00254 8,-0.011001,-0.013625,0.034609,0.0118,-0.004563,0.001647,0.012067,0.019384,0.000374,-0.001237,-0.004683,-0.002048,0.005389 Levant_Roman,0.05122,0.156392,-0.050911,-0.102068,-0.003077,-0.044065,-0.012926,-0.007154,0.031906,0.000364,0.004384,-0.015436,0.027354,0.003853,-0.003936,0.005304,-0.000782,-0.001014,-0.005908,0.010505,0.003494,-0.003833,-0.001109,0.006868,-0.010059
The majority of the Modern Iberians is mostly native Iberian (~60 - 75%) + Smalls influences, South Portugal have more Moorish ancestry, Canarias have Guanche blood, Galician and North Portugueses have more Suebi etc etc. . .
But i use some samples in g25 standart, to see how much IE, Whg, EEF they have
And Lusitanians (The consideres ancsestor of Portugueses and Extremadurans) and i got this:

Target: Lusitanian:Iberia_Southwest_BA
Distance: 3.9779% / 0.03977865

65.0TUR_Barcin_N
22.0WHG
10.4Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
2.0MAR_Taforalt
0.4Nganassan
0.2Han

They have a lot more WHG and way less Steppe, but how the modern Portugueses get this Buff of Yamnaya and this nerf of WHG???
First was pretty inconclusive if Lusitanians are Celt or Pre-Celts, but now is pretty obvious they were Pre-Celts
And If Portugueses are mostly pre roman tribes + small MENA (Moors) + small Germanic (Suebi) how they got this Yamanya???
If were the celts, its mean a portuguese is ~50% Celt invasor? ( {10% yamnaya from Lusitanian + 50% yamnaya from Celts } ÷ 2 = 30 [A average portuguese is 30% PIE]})
If someone can help me with this ill be thankfull

(In Illustrative DNA i got 19% Gaul Celt in 5pop Ancient Mode, if i am nearly 40 - 45% Portuguese a average portuguese is 45% Celt? Well thats a lot)

**~~Tongio~~** · 09-20-2022, 10:09 PM

How would we know these bronze age folks were lusitanian?First time lusitanians get mentioned is by the romans, and all lusitanian language carved in stelae we have were made in latin alphabet , after the first century.So its impossible só far to say when the lusitanian got tô the peninsula, tho in my opinion It was maybe before the celts(It is also not known about how the celts migrated in and when exactly)You need to take care with anthrotard inventions, these fóruns are filled with it.

**Jingle Bell** · 09-20-2022, 10:11 PM

Well, and looks like its correct, i added a Celt sample and the results was very correct:
Mine: (40% -45% "Pure" Portuguese-Galician)
imagem_2022-09-20_191001013.png
West iberian (Galician, Portuguese, Extremaduran and Andalucian):
imagem_2022-09-20_191057544.png

So i miss the celt admix in portuguese by ~9%, i guess that ok

**Sandis** · 09-20-2022, 10:13 PM

Probably Celts were not the first Indo-Europeans who arrived in iberia.

**Jingle Bell** · 09-20-2022, 11:15 PM

Oh ok, but i am using "lusitan" for all pre-celts iberians, not for only lusitans rly, and prob the lusos, tartesso, iberians etc are the descendents of the Neolithic Iberians + some Iberomaurisian and other little influences, and again, i not saying this is the true, i am asking for others opnions to see if this makes sense, anyway i just mean, the Iberians (At least the west iberians) are heavily Celt, i change the celt sample sometimes but the result is very similar, when i use gauls the celt dna is bigger, and when i use Bretons the celt dna is a little less, but the ppl say the most prob theory is the Hallsttat expansion Hipotesis, anyway i am pretty new with ancient genetic but i am pretty sure the west Iberians are at least 30% Celt, most likely somewhat 40%, which ia pretty impresive bcs the Irish ( who are the "living celts") are more or less 65% - 80% Celt with the germanic rest, anyway i appreciate your opnion but if u can sugest another theory ill be thankful, and Tysm again, u are with Passoni the persons who more help me in TA :amor:

**~~zebruh~~** · 09-20-2022, 11:49 PM

It scaled all your african ancestry as yoruban but its obviously more diverse than that. Plus its weird because most africans were from the congo area.