Should Christians get more physical in defending their religion?

[Mortimer]

They once were but nowadays they are not willing to protect their religion physically anymore against attacks. I listened to TikTok videos, Andrew Tate an American said islam is the true religion because it is the last religion, that means the last religion where you wont get out alive if you insult Mohammed or burn the Quran even in a Secular country where muslims are immigrants like Sweden, but in a mostly christian country like sweden or the USA you can insult in the most vile way Jesus and Christians wont defend themselfes physically.

A devout Christian answered, that we should focus more the heavenly realm, Gods realm not the physical realm and that the Bible says it is God who is to avenge, not we, God is the perfect judge, and it is not our buisness to protect God.

I think that is a bit more complicated, while we do really need to focus on the godly realm the Bible says we must first seek the kingodm of God and his righteousness, and that his will should be done on earth like in heaven, right?

Matthew 6,33 Seek first his kingdom and his righteousness...

Also according to the Bible we should do what Christ would do, we should strife to be holy like he was holy... But didnt Christ got physical with the money changers in the Temple? Does that mean if we something unrighteous and blaspheming etc. at least in Church maybe not in the state, but at least in our Church/Temple we can or should get physical? Didnt Christ throw over the tables of the money changers?

Matthew 21,12 Then Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those selling doves. 13And He declared to them, “It is written: ‘My house will be called a house of prayer.’ But you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’ ”…

So can we get or are allowed to get physical? Should we get physical?

In my opinion I would if i know i can win... or if im angry enough

[Mortimer]

"sanctify your hand with the blow"

St John Chrysostom:

“But since our discourse has now turned to the subject of blasphemy, I desire to ask one favor of you all, in return for this my address, and speaking with you; which is, that you will correct on my behalf the blasphemers of this city. And should you hear any one in the public thoroughfare, or in the midst of the forum, blaspheming God; go up to him and rebuke him; and should it be necessary to inflict blows, spare not to do so. Smite him on the face; strike his mouth; sanctify your hand with the blow, and if any should accuse you, and drag you to the place of justice, follow them there; and when the judge on the bench calls you to account, say boldly that the man blasphemed the King of angels! For if it be necessary to punish those who blaspheme an earthly king, much more so those who insult God. It is a common crime, a public injury; and it is lawful for every one who is willing, to bring forward an accusation. Let the Jews and Greeks learn, that the Christians are the saviours of the city; that they are its guardians, its patrons, and its teachers. Let the dissolute and the perverse also learn this; that they must fear the servants of God too; that if at any time they are inclined to utter such a thing, they may look round every way at each other, and tremble even at their own shadows, anxious lest perchance a Christian, having heard what they said, should spring upon them and sharply chastise them. Have you not heard what John did? He saw a man that was a tyrant overthrowing the laws of marriage; and with boldness, he proclaimed in the midst of the forum, It is not lawful for you to have your brother Philip’s wife. Mark 6:18 But I urge you on, not against a prince or a judge; nor against the marriage ordinance outraged; nor in behalf of fellow-servants insulted. But I require you to castigate an equal, for insolence against the Lord. Truly, if I had said unto you, punish and correct those kings or judges who transgress the laws, would you not say that I was mad? But John forsooth acted thus. So that even this is not too much for us. Now then, at least, correct a fellow-servant; an equal; and although it should be necessary to die, do not shrink from chastising a brother. This is your martyrdom, since John was also a martyr. And although he was not commanded to sacrifice, nor to worship an idol, yet for the sacred laws that were despised, he laid down his head. Do thou too then contend, even to the death, for the truth, and God will fight for you! And make me not this cold reply. What matters it to me? I have nothing in common with him. With the devil alone we have nothing in common, but with all men we have many things in common; for they partake of the same nature with us; they inhabit the same earth, and they are nourished with the same food; they have the same Lord; they have received the same laws, and are invited to the same blessings with ourselves. Let us not say then, that we have nothing in common with them; for this is a satanic speech; a diabolical inhumanity. Therefore let us not give utterance to such words, but exhibit such a tender care as becomes brethren!” – Saint John Chrysostom (Homily 1 On the Statues #32)

[Mortimer]

Todays Sermon #orthodoxchristianity #progressivechristianityiswrong

https://www.tiktok.com/@themortimer8...01126733481477

[Gaoyuan]

They should,Christianity are the softest religion I have seen,In China,Christianity is the lowest religion in terms of power,They dare not to fight back.

[Loki]

They should,Christianity are the softest religion I have seen,In China,Christianity is the lowest religion in terms of power,They dare not to fight back.

The kind of "power" you talk about are the things of this physical world, that will all go into destruction. The power of Christianity is eternal, and in the life after physical death. The power of Jesus is ultimate in the spiritual realm.

As for Mortimer's question -- I would agree with that to a certain extent.

[Token]

No, unless you try to relativize this passage where Jesus explicitly commands nonresistance.

Luke 6:27-36
But to those of you who will listen, I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone takes your cloak, do not withhold your tunic as well. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what is yours, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.

If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full.

But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them, expecting nothing in return. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

[Tongio]

No, unless you try to relativize this passage where Jesus explicitly commands nonresistance.

Luke 6:27-36
But to those of you who will listen, I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone takes your cloak, do not withhold your tunic as well. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what is yours, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.

If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full.

But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them, expecting nothing in return. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Truly utopical, this would surely lead tô a very suferable day tô day life, where everybody would make a fool out of the Christian, strip him of his time, good will and resources, abandoning him tô his own luck, in the very least.
We can see why few have been true Christians after the original was crucified.

[Token]

Truly utopical, this would surely lead tô a very suferable day tô day life, where everybody would make a fool out of the Christian, strip him of his time, good will and resources, abandoning him tô his own luck, in the very least.
We can see why few have been true Christians after the original was crucified.

– Would anyone like to have a little look down into the secret of how ideals are fabricated on this earth? Who has enough pluck? . . . Come on! Here we have a clear glimpse into this dark workshop. Just wait one moment, Mr Nosy Daredevil: your eyes will have to become used to this false, shimmering light . . . There! That’s enough! Now you can speak! What’s happening down there? Tell me what you see, you with your most dangerous curiosity – now I am the one who’s listening. –
– ‘I cannot see anything but I can hear all the better. There is a guarded, malicious little rumour-mongering and whispering from every nook and cranny. I think people are telling lies; a sugary mildness clings to every sound. Lies are turning weakness into an accomplishment, no doubt about it – it’s just as you said.’ –
– Go on!
– ‘and impotence which doesn’t retaliate is being turned into “goodness”; timid baseness is being turned into “humility”; submission to people one hates is being turned into “obedience” (actually towards someone who, they say, orders this submission – they call him God). The inoffensiveness of the weakling, the very cowardice with which he is richly endowed, his standing-by-the-door, his inevitable position of having to wait, are all given good names such as “patience”, also known as the virtue; not-being-able-to-take-revenge is called not-wanting-to-take-revenge, it might even be forgiveness (“for they know not what they do – but we know what they are doing!”). They are also talking about “loving your enemies” – and sweating while they do it.’
– Go on!
– ‘They are miserable, without a doubt, all these rumour-mongers and clandestine forgers, even if they do crouch close together for warmth – but they tell me that their misery means they are God’s chosen and select, after all, people beat the dogs they love best; perhaps this misery is just a preparation, a test, a training, it might be even more than that – something that will one day be balanced up and paid back with enormous interest in gold, no! in happiness. They call that “bliss”.’
– Go on!
– ‘They are now informing me that not only are they better than the powerful, the masters of the world whose spittle they have to lick (not from fear, not at all from fear! but because God orders them to honour those in authority) – not only are they better, but they have a “better time”, or at least will have a better time one day. But enough! enough! I can’t bear it any longer. Bad air! Bad air! This workshop where ideals are fabricated – it seems to me just to stink of lies.’

From Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals, first essay.

[Plutarch]

Yes, they should. It may not only be embarrassing, but contrary to moral theology when they don’t.

In the Catholic Church there is a well-developed theology of violence and there are clear criteria for violence. These criteria were inherited from Roman law and, most prominently, St. Augustine. A violent response is a moral imperative against certain attacks. But, as we know, these are rare where Christians are secularized. Nonetheless, violence may be a legitimate response and considered an act of charity (as paradoxical that may sound to modern ears).

For example, in the US, Antifa have vandalized Catholic statues and churches, and in Europe Muslims have attacked and murdered priests and worshipers—in such cases violence is a legitimate response, but it must be proportional, or else it’s unjust.