Belgium becoming a narco-State

[Laly]

The port of Antwerp, at the head of European sea transport, has become the epicentre of cocaine traffic in Europe. The Moroccan mafia holds a very important part in this disgusting business and very recently, the Minister of Justice Vincent Van Quickenborne was victim of an attempted kidnapping by the Moroccan mafia (also based in the Netherlands), in the context of drug trafficking.

I have seen, in Belgian and foreign press, many articles worrying about Belgium becoming a narco-State.

Ex. of article:

Justice Minister Vincent Van Quickenborne escaped the worst. He escaped a kidnapping attempt hatched by the drug world. 4 suspects were arrested in the Netherlands. The violence of drug trafficking is no longer confined to the middle or to certain neighborhoods. It invites itself into the public space and even into politics.

Narco-State

Belgium is therefore a candidate to become a “narco-state”. This is the observation made 10 days ago by Johan Delmulle, the Attorney General of Brussels, recalls Le Soir : The danger hovers over us that Belgium will receive the name of narco-state . The newspaper Le Monde also mentioned it. This would mean a state eaten away by corruption and which no longer has “the monopoly of legitimate violence” to use the famous definition of the state by sociologist Max Weber.

This attempt to kidnap the Minister of Justice of a rule of law is an open challenge to this “monopoly of legitimate state violence”.

That says a lot about the hubris and power of these groups. Let us recall a figure: the cocaine seizures of the year in the port of Antwerp (approximately 90 t) are worth 4.5 billion euros on the market. According to specialists, this represents around 10% of everything that passes through the port, i.e. nearly 45 billion euros per year.

We are talking about sums that could pay a good part of the pensions (54 billion), all of education in this country, (30 billion). It is above all 10 to 20 times more than the federal police budget (2.5 billion). The fight against organized crime is above all a fight for the rule of law, let's not forget that.

https://www.rtbf.be/article/la-belgi...-etat-11073881

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

A narco-state is a nation whose economy is dependent on trading illegal drugs. That's not Belgium now or in the future. Every Western nation has its drug traffickers.

[Laly]

A narco-state is a nation whose economy is dependent on trading illegal drugs. That's not Belgium now or in the future. Every Western nation has its drug traffickers.

Have you even read my post??

I can’t agree with you. And so, you’re saying like the situation in Belgium is normal?? The situation is far worse than it used to be, and once again, it’s because of [Islamic] immigration. Your definition of a narco-State is pretty restrictive.

In the article I quote, this definition is used: “This would mean a state eaten away by corruption and which no longer has “the monopoly of legitimate violence” to use the famous definition of the state by sociologist Max Weber.”

And in Wikipedia in English, I see this:

“Narco-state (also narco-capitalism or narco-economy[a]) is a political and economic term applied to countries where all legitimate institutions become penetrated by the power and wealth of the illegal drug trade. […] The term is often seen[by whom?] as ambiguous because of the differentiation between narco-states. The overall description would consist of illegal organisations that either produce, ship or sell drugs and hold a grip on the legitimate institutions through force, bribe or blackmail.[4] This situation can arise in different forms.”

So, yes, this is what is happening to Belgium, it’s not for nothing that other countries are being worried about Belgium becoming a narco-State.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Have you even read my post??

Yes, yes I did.

I can’t agree with you. And so, you’re saying like the situation in Belgium is normal?? The situation is far worse than it used to be, and once again, it’s because of [Islamic] immigration. Your definition of a narco-State is pretty restrictive.

Crime is normal in society. Whether it's far worse than yesterday is a different matter.

In the article I quote, this definition is used: “This would mean a state eaten away by corruption and which no longer has “the monopoly of legitimate violence” to use the famous definition of the state by sociologist Max Weber.”

That's not the definition of a narco-state.

"The monopoly of legitimate violence" means the police (law enforcement) are given authority by the state to use force to maintain its laws. The author is worried the state has lost its ability to enforce laws because it's corrupt. However, the author doesn't even attempt to support his belief with an example of actual government corruption.

And in Wikipedia in English, I see this:

“Narco-state (also narco-capitalism or narco-economy[a]) is a political and economic term applied to countries where all legitimate institutions become penetrated by the power and wealth of the illegal drug trade. […] The term is often seen[by whom?] as ambiguous because of the differentiation between narco-states. The overall description would consist of illegal organisations that either produce, ship or sell drugs and hold a grip on the legitimate institutions through force, bribe or blackmail.[4] This situation can arise in different forms.”

Belgium institutions have not been infiltrated by the 'Moroccan mafia' or any other drug trafficking gang.

So, yes, this is what is happening to Belgium, it’s not for nothing that other countries are being worried about Belgium becoming a narco-State.

No, it's not. The author is hysterical and you tend to latch on to anything extreme that involves people from a Muslim background regardless if it makes sense or not. Drug trafficking and the violence that comes with it is a serious issue but to claim Belgium is a narco-state is so ridiculous. You might as well claim Spain, UK, France, etc. are also narco-states based on nothing other than... drugs are brought into these nations.

[Bart0s]

Haven't watched the entire thing

[Petalpusher]

It's becoming the narco state in Europe, in the sense this is now the rotating plate for drug trafficking on the continent. New criminogenic population and all that, will assure regular characteristics of an actual narco state will follow, as corruption and crime rise. In France there s already been cases of corruption at the city hall level to facilitate trafficking.

[Laly]

Crime is normal in society. Whether it's far worse than yesterday is a different matter.

Yes, I am indeed talking about a special situation, that is very different from before. Yet you tried to convince that there’s nothing special, that there is no particular problem linked to drug cartels in Belgium, lol.

That's not the definition of a narco-state.

It’s totally linked to the definitions given by Wikipedia and both are far from the one you gave.

And yes, there’s a serious risk, in Belgium, that ”all legitimate institutions would be penetrated by the power and the wealth of illegal drug trade”. It is in the process of happening.

Belgium is a very corrupted country and in matters of drug trafficking, we see on a regular basis affairs of corruption in the media. It is an established fact that there’s a lot of corruption.

“No drug trafficking in Antwerp port without corruption”: https://www.dhnet.be/actu/faits/2022...AMQFGI6KKNTMI/

“Corruption: a policeman proposes one million to access a cocaine shipment”: https://www.lesoir.be/466639/article...e-cargaison-de

The magistrates are being threatened:

“In the city, the settling of accounts between criminal groups has multiplied in recent years, accompanied by the throwing of grenades and shootings at houses. The level of violence increases , sprawling networks extend under the influence of South American cartels, which worries Frédéric Van Leeuw, the federal prosecutor of Belgium. “We saw photos of settling scores, people cut into pieces, tortured alive until death”, relates the prosecutor. According to him, “there are photos of apartments where we collect all the banknotes for people to come looking for them with such an unsuspected level of corruption and violence, and that's what I call narco-terrorism after all, because the idea is to discourage people from tackling these issues at the risk of risking their lives . Several magistrates of the federal prosecutor's office, threatened by the cartels, are now under protection.

https://www.rtl.fr/actu/justice-fait...ine-7900119486

So yes, Belgian institutions have been infiltrated by the Moroccan mafia and others. Officials have accepted this situation also to save their lives.

No, it's not. The author is hysterical and you tend to latch on to anything extreme that involves people from a Muslim background regardless if it makes sense or not. Drug trafficking and the violence that comes with it is a serious issue but to claim Belgium is a narco-state is so ridiculous. You might as well claim, Spain, UK, France, etc. are also narco-states based on nothing other than... drugs are brought into these nations.

You have no idea what you’re talking about, you have no clue about the Moroccan mafia, the Mocro Mafia, as it’s called, which is gaining an incredible power in Belgium and the Netherlands, but sure, the author of the article, from an important mainstream media, as well as all those, concerned, who have written articles on that topic in foreign big media, such as Le Monde, and also all these attorneys, prosecutors, magistrates, etc., they are, of course, hysterical. Lol

[Laly]

Haven't watched the entire thing

Thank you for this interesting documentary by The Economist. It could teach a lot to Colonel Frank Grimes. I just don’t understand why the Mocro mafia is not mentioned at all, while it’s indeed the Mocro mafia that we always hear about in the media, including for its horrible violence. Anyway…

And from 11 minutes, it says: “The seizure ‘[of a cocaine shipment evoked in the documentary] lead to the arrest of the former head of Antwerp’s anti-narcotics section, three police officers and a lawyer. Big corporations often lobby politicians. Traffickers deploy a different kind of pressure group, because if a bribe isn’t an option, the bullet is. The mayor of Antwerp needed police protection after speaking against drug mafias. They have the money to influence politics and so on.”

[Florin Radu]

I'm sure this is hyperbole drama queen stuff. Columbia is a narco state, not one of the richest countries in the world like Belgium.

[Bart0s]

Thank you for this interesting documentary by The Economist. It could teach a lot to Colonel Frank Grimes. I just don’t understand why the Mocro mafia is not mentioned at all, while it’s indeed the Mocro mafia that we always hear about in the media, including for its horrible violence. Anyway…

And from 11 minutes, it says: “The seizure ‘[of a cocaine shipment evoked in the documentary] lead to the arrest of the former head of Antwerp’s anti-narcotics section, three police officers and a lawyer. Big corporations often lobby politicians. Traffickers deploy a different kind of pressure group, because if a bribe isn’t an option, the bullet is. The mayor of Antwerp needed police protection after speaking against drug mafias. They have the money to influence politics and so on.”

It's the same problem over in Sweden. Many of these gangs are cowards and they even shoot peoples families. Just search up on youtube for anything related to Sweden.