Uralo-Altaic vs Indo-European family.

[kingmob]

Armenians have quite some R1b-Z2103 but we haven't found that among any Ancient Greek samples except for one AFAIK, I don't remember.

You are correct, but Armenians carry L584 not Z2106 (TMRCA: 5300ybp) which is the Balkan Yamnaya and Albanian clade (mostly). The thing I am trying currently to find out is why some Vlachs in Albania, Romania, etc, also carry L584.

[lumas]

Whatever relationship Albanian has to Armenian and Greek must be of course distant from a common Yamnaya ancestor, the distance is even further with CW groups such as Balto-Slavic and Germanic, Celtic etc which some grouped Albanian with. By far the closest to Albanian is Messapic and they split in the Balkans with Messapic crossing the Adriatic over to Italy. Those graphs showing Armenian and Albanian split from each other in the Balkans are completely wrong and impossible such as this one from Matzinger also:

Spoiler!

Even his location for proto-Albanian is completely wrong I believe and nothing but speculation. Same way Albanian and Greek could of not of arrived at the same time in the Balkans together. This is not what genetics show and they would be even closer related if this was the case. Greeks have more J2a , Albanians more J2b2 also.


I don't know much about Armenian genetics but I'll take your word for it, I noticed some Albanians and Armenians share some R1b-Z2103 and there is one ancient sample from Iran that falls under the same branch but I assume these are minorities. https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y23838*/ ... Reich believes proto-Indo European home land was in the Maykop or Western Asia also from R1b people.


Armenian, Albanian, Greek haplos etc went through a serious of founder effects possibly too when they arrived in their locations or right before. This is also what happened with Illyrian tribes across the Adriatic and some of their J2b2-L283. These reflect founder effects and different tribes rather than different ethnic groups all together.

[lumas]

Vlachs don't seem to have much E-V13 than other Balkan groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aroman...enetic_studies

[Lemminkäinen]

I will have to go with Uralic-Altaic & here Lemmi and I do have very different views about ‘who we are’ - and these differences existed way before any “University Finno-Ugric extremists”, as the differences are neither ideological nor conceptual.

People seem to be mixing the two ‘races’ up here, or at least that is how my grandparents’ time felt like to me because the farming vs hunter-gatherer psycho-spiritual, cultural background differences were still clearly discernible.
https://images.cdn.tiede.fi/DDA87gyv...amp=1441268798

The mentality of the ‘steppe herding culture’, the early farming and the hunter-gatherer culture are different. We are the continuation of our backgrounds and if one cannot discern the differences between the aforementioned original cultures – I’d say “you do not know who you are”.

Personally, I would not have been clear about my background either, had I not travelled and met other hunter-gatherers, who in real life showed me my great similarity to them.

Plus, I was brought up in Shamanic spirituality of which Western Finns have little or no idea about, but which relates to:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/shamanism

No.
In this instance my ‘reaction’ had more to do about “Russki” and some others continuously demanding you to defend and expand on Finnish hunter-gatherer (siberian-shamanic) cultural background of which you are not a member of since Western Finns are very Western. So, it is not fair.

Ok. Archaeology proves that in SW Finland people practiced cultivating at least 2000 years from now.

For those wo don't know what was the Finnish linguistic idea called "Continuation theory". It said that the Uralic language was a European Lingua Franca and it was spoken everywhere in Europe before IE-languages. It is a rule that Finnish linguists easily get excited. We obviously have excellent linguists doing good work, but then somewhere around is hanging people who have rich imagination and are working like wokeists.

[Lemminkäinen]

Obviously the Continuation theory was created to explain why the Finnish language has loan words from Indo-Iranian and proto-Germanic languages at the same time. After this theory was canceled a linguist I know by chance told me that proto-Germanic loan words were adopted in Russia. The dilemma appeared because the dating of those loan words was found to be from the era when ancestors of Finnish speakers still lived in Russia. Accordingly he saw the proto-Germanic speakers had to be moved from seasides of the Baltic Sea to East European plain. The question was about the origin of the Germanic languages and if it is necessary for a Finnish linguist, it can be moved to Russia to ensure datings of the Finnish language.

[kingmob]

The Albanian clade sharing with the Hasanlu Medes could be a case of assimilation during the Byzantine period connecting the two, or the connection could be deeper, I remain agnostic on this.