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Thread: Are Mongols the reason Russia is so different from the rest of Eastern Europe in terms of rule?

  1. #11
    Veteran Member Methuselah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    Nope. But zemstvo or duma political structure was probably influenced by Kurultai.

    Russia is the way it is because of Tsarism. The institution of serfdom in Russia grew more restrictive only after the collapse of Mongol dominance, in fact Russians back then were defacto slaves of corrupt boyars, even when they abolished serfdom without ceasing to be a monarchy, they were obligated to work for local authorities, and Communist revolutions have only worked in places where fundamental liberties and property rights are borderline non-existent. I think the survival instinct of the nation is strong because they were invaded from all directions from Europe to Asia. Teutonic Crusaders were worse than Mongols, Swedes and Nazis for instance, they succeeded in creating the Baltics, which has only ever been a geopolitical thorn in Russia's side.

    Good points. Another explanation i hear sometimes is that Russia never had Kings influencing the nation the way other Europe did and it was more like Clan ruling type of thing. And less Catholic values. Maybe it's the lack of certain things, thus Russia is more brutal in that sense. Anyways, Tsars did a lot of good things for Russia but i was just thinking what if Mongols never conquered Russia and Russia's centre was Novgorod and not Moscow. Also, what if Russian tsars (including Catherine the Great) were less antisemitic (provoking influential Bolshevik Jews) and Jews were less Tsar hating people, would revolution still have happened in Russia? Assuming the Tsar is not fighting anyone in WW1.

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    Veteran Member Vandor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    Nope. But zemstvo or duma political structure was probably influenced by Kurultai.

    Russia is the way it is because of Tsarism. The institution of serfdom in Russia grew more restrictive only after the collapse of Mongol dominance, in fact Russians back then were defacto slaves of corrupt boyars, even when they abolished serfdom without ceasing to be a monarchy, they were obligated to work for local authorities, and Communist revolutions have only worked in places where fundamental liberties and property rights are borderline non-existent. I think the survival instinct of the nation is strong because they were invaded from all directions from Europe to Asia. Teutonic Crusaders were worse than Mongols, Swedes and Nazis for instance, they succeeded in creating the Baltics, which has only ever been a geopolitical thorn in Russia's side.

    Austro-Hungarian and German serfdom institution was way more harsh and massive than Russian one, being abolished just 10-20 years before Russian. It was almost total, unlike Russian (50-20% in different periods with tendency to reduce). Lots of Russian regions never experienced serfdom and there were enough of options to quit it. Soviet Kolhoz is a way more severe form of serfdom. Roots of everything you can ever mention here in topic are in 1920-1960 Soviet experiment over one nation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    Nope. But zemstvo or duma political structure was probably influenced by Kurultai.

    Russia is the way it is because of Tsarism. The institution of serfdom in Russia grew more restrictive only after the collapse of Mongol dominance, in fact Russians back then were defacto slaves of corrupt boyars, even when they abolished serfdom without ceasing to be a monarchy, they were obligated to work for local authorities, and Communist revolutions have only worked in places where fundamental liberties and property rights are borderline non-existent. I think the survival instinct of the nation is strong because they were invaded from all directions from Europe to Asia. Teutonic Crusaders were worse than Mongols, Swedes and Nazis for instance, they succeeded in creating the Baltics, which has only ever been a geopolitical thorn in Russia's side.

    Russia is still led by a monarch playng a democratic leader. He rules a group of secretaries and corrupted boyars. Boyars own nothing, they are vassals with right to steal.

    Teutonic crusaders didn't create Baltic states, they allocated property rights to landlords. They enslaved Baltic people in terrible wars. Some Baltic groups allied with them, whoever resisted was wiped away and in the end those allies were enslaved. Excellent strategy. Have you ever heard about Old Prussians. Teutonic Order slaughtered them. They also slaughtered Curonians, the united Curonian-Finnic Livonian resistance. Latgallians helped Germans and got a privileged status, as also their language, only to be enslaved in the end.
    Last edited by Lemminkäinen; 11-28-2022 at 09:32 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methuselah View Post
    Only if Kekkonen could end the Soviet Union but this goes to Gorba. Too bad Russia was a total mess in 90's with failed reforms like privatization etc. Why in hell Russia couldn't get proper professionals to deal with these problems?
    Corruption. The development stagnated in the beginning of the 60s after the engineering power they got from Nazi Germans faded out. All available resources went to the arms race against USA. At the end of the day they lost all and were in bankruptcy in 80s.
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    Veteran Member Methuselah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemminkäinen View Post
    Corruption. The development stagnated in the beginning of the 60s after the engineering power they got from Nazi Germans faded out. All available resources went to the arms race against USA. At the end of the day they lost all and were in bankruptcy in 80s.
    Yeah i was just wondering if Russia could have used more help from Europe in order to deal with these problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatization_in_Russia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Methuselah View Post
    Yeah i was just wondering if Russia could have used more help from Europe in order to deal with these problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatization_in_Russia
    It wasn't posdible during the Sovjet era, because there was not contitutional law protecting private property.
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    Veteran Member Methuselah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemminkäinen View Post
    It wasn't posdible during the Sovjet era, because there was not contitutional law protecting private property.
    Yes but after the fall of Soviet Union they tried to make reforms and failed badly. https://www.americansecurityproject....rn-day-russia/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Methuselah View Post
    Yes but after the fall of Soviet Union they tried to make reforms and failed badly. https://www.americansecurityproject....rn-day-russia/
    Economic crimes and weak administration. Critical moments were at the beginning of Putin's presidency. In fact Russia is a rich country and should cope better in economic sense. I have never understood why Russian domestic market doesn't work. Russia is a big country and the best way to success is to have a working domestic market. It calls for wide spectrum of economics, not only benefitting natural resources.
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    Question which of these is an accurate quote by winston churchill

    The best argument against democracy
    is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.



    If you want to know what is wrong with democracy,
    just spend 15 minutes talking with the average voter.






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    Quote Originally Posted by lei.talk View Post
    The best argument against democracy
    is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    If you want to know what is wrong with democracy,
    just spend 15 minutes talking with the average voter.




    Yeah, what a charming paradox. Churchill is a good evidence of the stupidity of the democracy.
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