CHAM ALBANIAN DNA RESULTS 100% FROM EPIRUS.

[KrashNick]

Congrats! Nice results

[TrueEpiriote]

Congrats! Nice results

Flm Vlla


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wvwvw]

Yes, I'm not sure why some modern Greeks get so upset. Maybe it's because an Albanian may have a closer genetic affinity with their beloved Epirotes than they do themselves.

The Chams were a 20,000 small minority in Epirus compared to the millions of Greeks in Albania, which even the founder of Albania had acknowledged as a Greek region. We all know there was no Ancient Albania but there was an Ancient Epirus inhabited by Greek tribes.

[TrueEpiriote]

The Chams were a 20,000 small minority in Epirus compared to the millions of Greeks in Albania, which even the founder of Albania had acknowledged as a Greek region. We all know there was no Ancient Albania but there was an Ancient Epirus inhabited by Greek tribes.

You're going to have to expand on your thoughts. Millions of Greeks in Albania? When? Founder of Albania? Whom? Provide quotes?

Historically, we can say that Epirus was a region inhabited by Greek tribes, but now the region is predominantly inhabited by Albanians, who may very well be remnants of assimilated Epriotes and a mixture of other paleo-Balkanic tribes. Modern Greek Epriotes are almost non-existent, and the only logical inheritance of the Epriote title should be given to Albanians.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wvwvw]

You're going to have to expand on your thoughts. Millions of Greeks in Albania? When? Founder of Albania? Whom? Provide quotes?

Historically, we can say that Epirus was a region inhabited by Greek tribes, but now the region is predominantly inhabited by Albanians, who may very well be remnants of assimilated Epriotes and a mixture of other paleo-Balkanic tribes. Modern Greek Epriotes are almost non-existent, and the only logical inheritance of the Epriote title should be given to Albanians.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Greek Epirotes are non-existant in your wishful thinking. In the same way Macedonian are non existed for the forgers of Macedonian history.

There are none of the 20,000 Chams in Greece (after collaborating with nazis) but there are still thousands of Greeks in Albania. The Greek PM visited them recently and the Greek Albanians gave him a warm welcome by chanting "Hellas, Hellas".



Not to mention the Epirotes in Greece. Although 1 million of modern Greeks came from other regions of Greece (Asia Minor) which today is no longer Greece, they did not replace the local Greeks that were already there. Do the Sicilians who migrate to Milan replace the Milanese? There are Normans in Sicily and Southern Italians all over Italy. Is a Kosovo Albanian migrant in Himera more Epirote than a Greek living there? or is a Serb more Kosovo Albanian than a Champ would be if you'd emigrate to Kosovo?

You are free to claim Epirote heritage as long as you don't rape the history of Ancient and modern Greeks, as the Epirotes were not a separate ethnicity, but had the same descent as all other Greek tribes.

[TrueEpiriote]

Greek Epirotes are non-existant in your wishful thinking. In the same way Macedonian are non existed for the forgers of Macedonian history.

There are none of the 20,000 Chams in Greece (after collaborating with nazis) but there are still thousands of Greeks in Albania. The Greek PM visited them recently and the Greek Albanians gave him a warm welcome by chanting "Hellas, Hellas".



Not to mention the Epirotes in Greece. Although 1 million of modern Greeks came from other regions of Greece (Asia Minor) which today is no longer Greece, they did not replace the local Greeks that were already there. Do the Sicilians who migrate to Milan replace the Milanese? There are Normans in Sicily and Southern Italians all over Italy. Is a Kosovo Albanian migrant in Himera more Epirote than a Greek living there? or is a Serb more Kosovo Albanian than a Champ would be if you'd emigrate to Kosovo?

You are free to claim Epirote heritage as long as you don't rape the history of Ancient and modern Greeks, as the Epirotes were not a separate ethnicity, but had the same descent as all other Greek tribes.

Your hypothesis would be acceptable if all the Ancient Greek tribes had the same genetic makeup, which we know is not the case. Epirotes, being neighbors to other paleo-Balkanic people groups, would have had their genetic makeup shifted. The same goes for Greeks in Anatolia and other tribes. To say that they were all equal genetically is obviously a lie, which we can see in today's populations as well. So, bringing Karamanlides into a region like Epirus would ultimately replace the Epiriotes, as these people carry different levels of admixture, paternal and maternal haplotypes, etc. The same thing would apply to a Sicilian and a Milanese.

Thank you for bringing up the Greek minority in Albania. It is not clear that these people are of Greek descent, especially Epiriotic descent, as many of them have recently claimed this Greek heritage. Census records show that their family lineage was identified differently in past censuses. Additionally, the Greek government provides pensions to these "Greeks," which gives them an incentive to claim a Greek national identity. It is easy to commit pension fraud in this way. The problem here is that this minority has not been proven to be a minority on the basis of genetics, but only on their own word, which opens the door to complete fraud. They are more then likely a mixture Albanians & Vlachs.

Please stop with the Nazi collaborator rhetoric. My grandfather fought alongside the Greek partisans and was in no way a Nazi. This is the excuse that the Greek government likes to use to justify committing genocide and expelling an ethnic/religious minority.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wvwvw]

Thank you for bringing up the Greek minority in Albania. It is not clear that these people are of Greek descent, especially Epiriotic descent, as many of them have recently claimed this Greek heritage. Census records show that their family lineage was identified differently in past censuses. Additionally, the Greek government provides pensions to these "Greeks," which gives them an incentive to claim a Greek national identity. It is easy to commit pension fraud in this way. The problem here is that this minority has not been proven to be a minority on the basis of genetics, but only on their own word, which opens the door to complete fraud. They are more then likely a mixture Albanians & Vlachs.

These people there are documented long before the Albanians were documented there. Perhaps it is you that is not clear that you are of Albanian descend since you plot more with Greeks than with say, KrashNick.

The Greek government never paid any Albanian to identify as Greek.

The paid the elderly a small scanty pension, since they got nothing from the Albanian government who's policy was and is to eradicate them) in order for them to stay in their ancestor lands so that Albanians don't seize illegally their properties and the Greek community becomes extinct.

Many Greeks from the Greek minority of Albania sought work in Greece and when they returned back in Albania they found their homes occupied by Albanians who refused to leave. The Albanian government has illegally seazed thousands of Greek homes in Himaira.

20.02.2013
State turns its back on ethnic Greeks in southern Albania
By Stavros Tzimas

The Greek government’s decision to end the provision of scant pensions to older members of the ethnic Greek minority in southern Albania, previously viewed as a way of maintaining the region’s historical Greek identity, has caused sadness and concern in the ethnic Greek villages. Witnesses have spoken of elderly men and women flocking to the Greek Consulate in Gjirokaster (Argyrokastro in Greek), a town with a large Greek community, with tears in their eyes.

The reactions from minority officials are indicative of the bitter mood among the community. “After the children and young people left en masse for Greece, responsibility for keeping the ethnic Greek minority alive has rested with the older generation,” said Andreas Zarbalas, the first president of the Greek minority party, Omonia.

Given the rising nationalism and pressure on the Greeks of ‘Northern Epirus,’ these measures will not only harm their dignity but also deal a fatal blow to their existence,” Omonia said in a statement, while the Ethnic Greek Minority for the Future party said, “They never expected that they would be treated as lifeless beings by the homeland."

http://www.ekathimerini.com/148655/a...uthern-albania

Please stop with the Nazi collaborator rhetoric. My grandfather fought alongside the Greek partisans and was in no way a Nazi. This is the excuse that the Greek government likes to use to justify committing genocide and expelling an ethnic/religious minority.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It was clearly no genocide. Why don't you take your claims to the International association of genocide scholars or to Hague to decide if it was genocide.

The Chams according to the international conditions which were made after the World War II were criminals of War because they are responsible for the death of thousands of Greeks (Christians and Jews) as well as for deaths of Italian soldiers when they disobey to the Nazi at the end of the war. The Chams didn't stop killing Greek civilians (including many woman and children) even at the time when the Germans were on the way out of Greece after their defeat by the allies. The slaughter of civilian Greeks by the Chams in the area of Paramythia is indicant. When the Greek army went to that area to save the Greek civilians the Chams moved to Albania. They are war criminals and they sided with Nazis, and before that had always sided with Ottomans against Greeks.

When Greece was occupied by Axis, Germans gave Muslim Chams weapons and ammunition to terrorize Greeks again. (It was a German custom in Balkans, to support Muslim groups against Christians, especially in Balkans). They acted treacherous. Their actions of terror in Epirus became well-known between Greek guerillas and British military personnel in Greece. A lot of them are still wanted for crimes they did in WWII. They collaborated with the enemy and lost. Their fate is something like that of the Sudeten Germans, although the numbers are way smaller.

Most women and children didn't commit any crimes. However, a significant portion of menfolk did ( like Sudeten and Prussian Germans in Poland) . Men who once followed Mussolini and the Germans as saboteurs and ethnic cleansers of Jews of Ionnina quickly switched over to " anti-fascist Cham organization" when it was clear their masters will lose in 1944 ( remember this is about 20,000 )people. They rightfully were afraid of retribution and fled the country afterwards and never came back after they chose again the wrong side in Civil War.

You think the men were going to leave behind their women and children in Greece? About 1500 Chams were found guilty of war crimes and probably more were guilty. Cham Christians were also the victims of their crimes and also stayed in Greece.

Spoiler!

[Italicus]

I'm sorry to hear about your family being expelled. That must have been really tough. It's sad that this kind of thing has happened to so many families in Europe. My thoughts are with you. I agree but only if it is a true Greek Epriote who can trace his lineage there from centuries because as we all know many modern Greek Epirotes are Karamanlides who where brought to Epirus from the Greek/Turkish population exchange, my great-grandfather even employed and took care of many of these migrants in Perdika at the time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So many families have suffered. Italians, Albanians, Greeks, Germans, Poles, Turks, Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, the Scottish Highlanders and probably more. People just couldn't live next to each other due to the anger and hatred. I have noticed this has never happened in the Benelux, France and Iberia though. I wonder how they managed not to massacre and expel each other.

[wvwvw]

Your hypothesis would be acceptable if all the Ancient Greek tribes had the same genetic makeup, which we know is not the case. Epirotes, being neighbors to other paleo-Balkanic people groups, would have had their genetic makeup shifted. The same goes for Greeks in Anatolia and other tribes..

Irrelevant since the Epirotes have the same genetic make up as mainland Greeks. And that's not Illyrian.

A lot of Asia Minor Greeks had Epirote ancestry and lots of Epirotes had ancestry from other parts of Greeks since antiquity. Many Ancient Greek cities in Albania were build by Corinthians and even Phoenician Greeks.

[TrueEpiriote]

Irrelevant since the Epirotes have the same genetic make up as mainland Greeks. And that's not Illyrian.

A lot of Asia Minor Greeks had Epirote ancestry and lots of Epirotes had ancestry from other parts of Greeks since antiquity. Many Ancient Greek cities in Albania were build by Corinthians and even Phoenician Greeks.

Did I say it was Illyrian? To make a connection with mainland Greeks and Epirotes is appropriate, but to say that Asia Minor Greeks have the exact same genetic makeup as an Epirote is not scientifically accurate. Asia Minor Greeks are the predominant Greeks in Epirus today and yes they’re DNA has largely shifted away from the common Epirote and neighbours.

Just as a Sicilian in the south is closer to a Greek/Albanian than to a northern Italian, who are more northern-shifted, speaking from a genetic standpoint you wouldn't call these people exactly the same. Maybe they have the same language and cultures, but there is definitely a strong genetic difference.

Also, what do you mean by the term 'Phoenician Greek'? Are you referring to the city in Albania, Finiq (ancient Phoenice)?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk