Ancient Novgorodians (according to Netflix)

[sevruk]

(Thanks to the YouTube info)

Still, all of this superficial Netflix stuff only deflects our attention from what seems like both Russia and Ukraine are trying to build their respective National narratives and identities stemming from the Kievan Rus Viking period.

Ukrainian Ex-president Petro Poroshenko’s opinion being that Kievan Rus has no relation to Russia and Putin’s opinion being that Moscow is the continuation and the successor of the Kievan Russ state.

People need to look at the history and make up their own minds.

Rurikid ruled Moscow after the Tatar-Mongolian invasion. Belarus and Ukraine were ruled by Lithuanians and Poles.

[sevruk]

[Aila]

Lemmi may feel some nostalgia about the positives their alliance with them Swedish brought and we may feel some nostalgia about the positives of our old alliance with Novgorod.
But you Russians don’t seem to harbour any nostalgia about the Mongol invasion
But surely that era must have left a mark, surely it must have had an influence, no?
What was it?
I’m just really curious.

[Aila]

Ok.

Alexander Nevsky manages to save the Orthodox Church, but surrendered to the Mongols and thus saved Novgorod from a total destruction.

They say that Moscow inherited its autocratic rule from the Mongols.

So. How is that a continuation of the Novgorod style governance?

[Mingle]

Separate countries in Finland was not likely. Pressure against Finns was hard from every direction, Novgorod from east, Sweden form west and Denmark and Germans from south. It was only a question of time when Finland would have been conquered.

Another question is did Sweden really conquered Finland. We have no evidences about conquest of Western Finland. Many Finnish historians suggest that West Finns allied Swedes against Novgorod. Nothing new later. We have undeniable evidences about the conquest of Karelia, just 40 years later the imagined conquest of Western Finland. Why only 40 years differs between those dates and nothing proves about western conquest, except undetailed mentionings about crusades?

Estonia is totally another question. Estonia was behind the sea and Tallinn (Reval) a wanted trade center between Novgorod and northern German trade towns.

People of Finland had no unified Finnish identity before the Swedish annexation, right?